Lern Me: 2011+ Dodge Charger R/T Edition

Ok, so my "Daily WANT" today is focused on the Dodge Charger R/T. It would serve as a replacement for my daily driver 2012 Mazda 3. I want more space, more power, and more creature comforts, and the Rich Sound of V8 Pleasure (tm) doesn't hurt. On paper, it looks like a 'Merican E39 M5 with styling cues from a late 60's Dodge Coronet. I can get behind that.

Here's what I know so far:

-The 2012-14 cars got better gauge clusters with a color info screen, so I'd probably skip the 2011

-There's a Super Track Pack option that includes summer rubber (probably gone by now), better brake pads (also gone), tighter steering (nice!) and a different set of gears out back (also nice!)

-You can get a red interior (SWEET!)

-The Hemi has 16 spark plugs that have to be replaced every 30k, and it takes 7qts of oil every 8k

-R/T cars get factory HID's. I've always wanted a car with factory HID's.

-They made a Super Bee, but I'm not paying a premium to get a strippo R/T with slightly more HP.

-2015+ cars look better and come with the 8-speed auto instead of Ye Olde 5-speed auto, but are more expensive by a lot

What I DON'T know:

-Reliability factor: are these giant piles of crap? My Mazda has been great. I don't want to go back to driving an unreliable piece of crap.

Wild Card: The 2011+ Chrysler 300S Hemi

-Do these have any of the same options, like the Super Track Pack, but with a different, more luxurious name?

-Do you have to be a card carrying AARP member to purchase one?

What say ye GRM brethren?

I looked closely at them and drove a 2012 model last year. It's a nice car, comfy, pretty quick, roomy, and the updated interior is quite nice. It even handles pretty well considering it's size. Personally, I'd hold out for the 2015+ to get the ZF 8-speed and better styling, though.

Reliability is... well, I don't know. My general caution about Chryslers is part of the reason I didn't get one. I'd love to hear more info. Given that it's a Chrysler, though, you do get sweet depreciation, which means you really can get a lot of car for your money.

However, if you are looking for an American E39 M5, the Chevy SS is a lot closer. It's smaller, handles better, and is quite a bit faster than the Charger R/T, and roughly even with the Scat Pack/SRT Charger in acceleration. Unfortunately, it's also quite a bit more expensive.

Under pros, you forgot to list: Those freakin' taillights! Those are the absolute best.

Tom_Spangler wrote: I looked closely at them and drove a 2012 model last year. It's a nice car, comfy, pretty quick, roomy, and the updated interior is quite nice. It even handles pretty well considering it's size. Personally, I'd hold out for the 2015+ to get the ZF 8-speed and better styling, though. Reliability is... well, I don't know. My general caution about Chryslers is part of the reason I didn't get one. I'd love to hear more info. Given that it's a Chrysler, though, you do get sweet depreciation, which means you really can get a lot of car for your money. However, if you are looking for an American E39 M5, the Chevy SS is a lot closer. It's smaller, handles better, and is quite a bit faster than the Charger R/T, and roughly even with the Scat Pack/SRT Charger in acceleration. Unfortunately, it's also quite a bit more expensive.

Yeah, I've considered those too. They are about $10k more, and parts are or will be made of unobtanium very soon because they were built in Aussie land. Also, do they have the same Displacement on Demand issues that the trucks do? If so, I want none of that.

And yes, the Millennium Falcon tail lights are the best.

We have a '16. It's nice and fun to drive. Hellcat spoiler woke up the ass end in the looks department. The 8 speed engine brakes to make the good braking even better. The dash is miles of textured plastic and kinda boring but there are leather accents on the bits you touch. Steering wheel is super nice feeling and without pushing it the thing will creep into the triple digits on you and not feel like it. I was literally doing 110 through downtown one night and thought i was doing 80.

In reply to patgizz:

I knew somebody on here had just bought one. Couldn't remember who though.

SilverFleet wrote: Yeah, I've considered those too. They are about $10k more, and parts are or will be made of unobtanium very soon because they were built in Aussie land. Also, do they have the same Displacement on Demand issues that the trucks do? If so, I want none of that.

Nope, no DOD on the SS. Hence the 21 mpg city rating, also significantly worse than the Charger, which I think gets 25? It's a nice car, but too expensive, IMO.

In reply to Tom_Spangler:

Interesting. But yeah, the $10k premium and the 21mpg make it a non-starter. I still have to commute in this thing. I've been getting 26mpg lately in my Mazda, so getting 23-24mpg in the Charger with more than double the HP and cylinders is acceptable to me.

IIRC FiatAlfaChryslerJeep is pretty much consistently at the bottom of the "civilian"[1] car reliability ratings in most surveys.

That said, when we went to Bondurant in September, they had a whole fleet of Charger R/Ts as instructor cars. IMHO something this big shouldn't have any business flying around a track at the sorts of speeds it does.

[1] As opposed to car person

Another thing I forgot to mention: I work on my own stuff. My Mazda hasn't been to the dealership for anything since I bought it; everything it's needed was done in my driveway. I don't mind wrenching on cars that make sense and are laid out properly. I have no clue what one of these things would be like to wrench on.

SilverFleet wrote: Another thing I forgot to mention: I work on my own stuff. My Mazda hasn't been to the dealership for anything since I bought it; everything it's needed was done in my driveway. I don't mind wrenching on cars that make sense and are laid out properly. I have no clue what one of these things would be like to wrench on.

I don't know, either, but just based on sheer size, it seems like it wouldn't be too bad. Plenty of room to get wrenches into tight spaces and all that. Plus, given the thousands of them that are in police service, it should be fairly easy to get parts and figure out service procedures and such.

Agreed about the mileage on the SS. That's another reason I decided against one. I wasn't willing to drive a car that got the same mileage as the Ecoboost F-150 I had at the time.

Silverfleet I tried to reply the other day but either my tablet or the board weren't allowing more than a word and when I hit the space bar everything stopped. Now that I'm back from LA all is well.

I just picked up a 13 Charger Pursuit police model formerly used by OH Highway Patrol. I drove it 4.5 hours back from Chicago to OH and the drive was quite nice and a lot smoother and quieter than the Dodge Dart we took to Chicago to get it. I did a lot of research on RWD Police cars after looking for a fun RWD V8 project and driving CVPI for years. The CVPI are cheap and strong/reliable but suck for power,brakes and much added power without a swap or forced induction. The Chevy SS or Caprice police version offer great LS motor and drivetrain but like mentioned parts that are not drivetrain are uncommon and going to get worse plus short model run and low sales police and citizen versions make it even worse. The Dodge came out on top for me. Police versions are a big reduction compared to R/T and performance models and come with large radiator,oil,trans and P/S coolers plus larger than R/T brakes while being a little lighter if 4k+ Lbs can be called light. The Nag1 5 speed is considered very robust and looking at the gear ratios is not bad for 5 spd vs the 6 spd manual with a lower 1st gear and 1:1 4th plus mild overdrive. Throw in a better final drive from a manual car like a 3.73 or 3.91 vs the stock 3.06 at best and you get a nice improvement.

The transmission and suspensions are Mercedes based parts and well proven. The Hemi is also well built with a lot of LS like features such as crossbolt mains on all 5,good flowing heads stock,raised cam,roller lifters,powdered rods and full float piston pins etc. They don't seem to have the oil issues the LS have and the MDS( similar to DOD on LS) is less prone to issues once the timing chain is replaced. VVT is added for 09+ and Edelbrock offers heads,intake and their Eforce supercharger kit. Plenty of easy potential for NA power too.

I plan to do a mild all around build and make it a do everything OK nothing great car and have fun with it. Daily use,drag race,autocross,occasional trackday,and maybe a 1/2-1 mile speed event or open road event if I can find some not too far away. Hell I might even take it rally crossing since it has skid plates and plenty of sidewall on the 18" wheels. Check out the LX forums for more info as they are a good resource along with Allpar.

I'm with you on the want too. I've looked at them over and over and over and still do. They'd check all my boxes, if only they were available with a 6spd manual. Even still, there is so much to love, figuratively and literally. They're big 'uns for sure, huge cars. But they're fast for their size, tons of room, look cool, handle well for 2+ tons, great cruisers, etc... I'd think the Hemi itself is fairly reliable. They're in heaven knows how many Ram work trucks, police cars, etc...and I've seen them with stupid miles on them. Don't know about the reliability of the 5spd auto trans or the other things on them, specifically electronic components.

I kind of go back and forth on choosing the R/T over the 300C, but I really like both of them. Curious to see what other responses are on this thread, as these cars hover at the top of my list repeatedly.

A buddy of mine has an ex OHP Charger he is tying to get rid of. I can put you in touch if you want.

SRT8 or HemiS 300C's are always a good pick.

I just rented a '16 RT and drove about 6 hours each way into Tampa. It wasn't a bad car. It had good power but wasn't quite as fast in a straight line as my 05 Mustang GT, but it's a big sedan so that's pretty good. The handling was good but not great - lots of roll, lots of push. This was the rental spec cloth interior, and it was absurdly, embarrassingly cheap looking and feeling. The seats looked like they were covered in the mesh crap that is on the back of every Wal-Mart back-to-school backpack. It made my Mustang feel up market, and that's saying something. The trunk was a little bigger than my Mustang (and had better access) but it wasn't nearly as big as the one on our Mazda 6.

The one thing that really bothered me was how stiff the steering was. just off center the steering effort required to turn the wheel normally was really high. Like it was fatiguing after a couple hours on the interstate. Seems like they've got the drive by wire programmed wrong, or the power boost is out of sync, depending on which system it has.

It rode pretty well and although the seats were hard and missing lumbar adjustments, it was pretty nice for the long haul. I can see why it makes a good cop car.

Overall, if I were in the market for a fast 4dr, it would be in the mix but I would make sure to cross shop the 300C to see if the interior was any nicer. I personally like the look of the 300 a little better too.

They're good solid cars and while they may not be quite Mazda reliable they're pretty darn good. I've always liked them and have some seat time in every generation. If you don't think you want to pay the premium for a '15+ don't drive one. I don't know if they made any significant changes but the chassis and drive train calibrations are now world class. Even the V6 versions are excellent.

I think I'm better off waiting on a 2015+ post refresh model than getting into a 2011-14. There's just so much more upside with the 2015+ cars. They look better IMHO, interiors are slightly nicer with more toys, and the 8-speed auto is a big plus. They are still in the high $20k range used, so I'm fine with waiting a bit. My Mazda shows no signs of stopping anytime soon.

I wish more companies made a fun to drive, somewhat affordable RWD sedan that didn't cost an arm and a leg to maintain, especially if it offered a manual transmission option. Ford, I'm looking squarely at you. I would totally get into a 4-door, V8 "Mustang", and want nothing to do with a Ford Explorer-based "car". The FCA LX twins have this market cornered.

SilverFleet wrote: I wish more companies made a fun to drive, somewhat affordable RWD sedan that didn't cost an arm and a leg to maintain, especially if it offered a manual transmission option. Ford, I'm looking squarely at you. I would totally get into a 4-door, V8 "Mustang", and want nothing to do with a Ford Explorer-based "car". The FCA LX twins have this market cornered.

I made a rant post about this exact topic a few weeks ago, so I feel your pain. From those criteria, not much out there that isn't German. Not only am I looking at Dodge/Chrysler for not putting a manual in the Charger/300, Ford could put one in a Fusion Sport, or even better as I've said many times I'm horribly dismayed that Honda won't offer the manual in the V6 Accord sedan.

The Infiniti G37 is one option that fits most of the criteria you mention and is available as a manual, though pretty rare.

I haven't looked into it as I am not looking to do it but how hard would it be to be do an auto to manual swap since the Challenger is offered with a manual and is basically the same car?

For anyone looking at these car I suggest trying to find a R/T as well as police package car to drive as they offer enough differences to consider.

I like the looks of the 15+ cars better than the 11-14s but not enough for the money and 15+ police packages are rare on the used market and zero for my budget. I got mine for well under $9000 with no accidents,decent condition and a great service history/carfax. You can do even better if you check out auctions and do your homework.

I learned the NAG1 5 speed auto was used for years on Mercedes AMGs as well as for over a decade behind Hemis and all police package Hemis. Easy/cheap upgrade is AMG blue top solenoids.

SilverFleet wrote: I think I'm better off waiting on a 2015+ post refresh model than getting into a 2011-14. There's just so much more upside with the 2015+ cars. They look better IMHO, interiors are slightly nicer with more toys, and the 8-speed auto is a big plus. They are still in the high $20k range used, so I'm fine with waiting a bit. My Mazda shows no signs of stopping anytime soon. I wish more companies made a fun to drive, somewhat affordable RWD sedan that didn't cost an arm and a leg to maintain, especially if it offered a manual transmission option. Ford, I'm looking squarely at you. I would totally get into a 4-door, V8 "Mustang", and want nothing to do with a Ford Explorer-based "car". The FCA LX twins have this market cornered.

Dealer we got ours at had a very nicely appointed rt for 26500 or so. New 2016.

Zeitgeist wrote: I haven't looked into it as I am not looking to do it but how hard would it be to be do an auto to manual swap since the Challenger is offered with a manual and is basically the same car?

I asked that same question in my rant post, and someone mentioned that the Charger and Challenger don't share the same floorpan (or something like that), so the conversion wouldn't be as easy as it should/could be.

SilverFleet said: -The Hemi has 16 spark plugs that have to be replaced every 30k

Cheap Champion coppers - $2.49 each - are the only way to go. Too many stories I've read, while I had an '05 Magnum RT, about the expensive non-copper plugs not running as well and failing. In fact, mine puked one of those expensive plugs (from previous owner) that destroyed a cylinder.

Klayfish wrote:

SilverFleet wrote: I wish more companies made a fun to drive, somewhat affordable RWD sedan that didn't cost an arm and a leg to maintain, especially if it offered a manual transmission option. Ford, I'm looking squarely at you. I would totally get into a 4-door, V8 "Mustang", and want nothing to do with a Ford Explorer-based "car". The FCA LX twins have this market cornered.

I made a rant post about this exact topic a few weeks ago, so I feel your pain. From those criteria, not much out there that isn't German. Not only am I looking at Dodge/Chrysler for not putting a manual in the Charger/300, Ford could put one in a Fusion Sport, or even better as I've said many times I'm horribly dismayed that Honda won't offer the manual in the V6 Accord sedan. The Infiniti G37 is one option that fits most of the criteria you mention and is available as a manual, though pretty rare.

My parents picked up a 2014 Infiniti Q60X coupe (it's a rebadged G37 Coupe) earlier this year. While I like it a lot, there's a lack of headroom and I still hear horror stories about the combo HVAC stereo systems that basically control everything in Nissan products from my buddy who is a service writer at a Nissan dealership. For a car that has a manual in it, it's going to be an older G37, and that system will have already started its death march, and I don't want to drop $6000+ to replace it. Every car has it's faults, and this is what happens to these.

Other than that, I do like them. The one my parents have is pretty quick, it handles like it's on rails, and the 7-speed auto is better than you would think. The shifts are crisp and sporty, and theirs isn't even a Sport model.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that wants one