In reply to CyberEric :
Yes, I do know about the turbo 2.5 going into the 3. It will likely sell in the low-mid $30k range. Too rich for my blood; I've complained about it at length on here before. One of those used might be the car after the one I buy next. 
In reply to einy (Forum Supporter) :
Well, that's not promising. That said, most new cars have direct injection now. I'm guessing many of them will eventually need a valve-cleaning service. I'd be willing to guess that there's a DIY kit to perform the service, like the BMW guys have. I'm looking at newer stuff, no older than 2017 on the GTI and 2019 on the GLI.
The Si I wanted to look at tomorrow is sold, so I'm not sure one of those is going to happen. The same dealer has a bunch of Civic Sports with manuals; I'm wondering how much tamer those are and how they match up to the other cars I'm looking at.
EDIT: Those Civic Sport models are the non-turbo 2.0L cars. Meh. They have the Sport Touring hatches, but they are more than that Mazda 3 and not as nice.
Gdi cleaning is as simple as half a can of sea foam every 30k through the pcv hose. Seriously takes about 10-15 minutes makes a lot of smoke and you're good. Or a catch can.
be cautious of the Honda 1.5t though. Fuel dilution issues leading to a class action right now. Some cars "gaining" 1-1.5qts of "extra oil"(raw fuel) in a few thousand miles. We are seeing these in the UOA's as well. Honda says 5-7% is normal. I think it's a bit excessive but some of our customers have been sending them to research labs (we can o my read gasoline to 5% per the ASTM method) and seeing 12-18%.
that's my one word of caution on the turbo hondas.
What is a UOA, bobzilla?
Yeah, I'll second Bobzilla. I'd research the 1.5T Honda engine before buying.
In reply to einy (Forum Supporter) :
Oil analysis?
The Civic 1.5 Turbo fueling issues... that's not great either! If what I am reading is true, that's a lot of fuel getting into the oil. Doesn't sound great for longevity, and judging by my current car, I will likely have this for a while. Might have to pass on the Honda this time.
So that leaves the Kia/Hyundai and the VW stuff. VW has the power and features I want, but that unknown variable of it either being a good car or a total pile. The Kia is cheap, but the package I really want means you have to get the DCT. Dealer has both a DCT car and a 6-speed, so I may have to drive both. This is strictly a daily driver; most hooning will be done in my Trans Am or Power Wagon, so I don't necessarily mind having the DCT if it's not terrible. Not sure if the costs of maintaining it are as high as the VW ones.
In reply to einy (Forum Supporter) :
Used Oil Analysis. What I do for a living.
In reply to Tony Sestito :
I really wish I could get interested in the Hyundai, but I’m still prejudiced, I have to admit. I haven’t driven the newer Korean stuff, with the exception of a rental Kia Rio, which was... fine. I’m still not convinced any of these newer turbo 4s with DI are something I want long term. I hear a lot of horror stories even in the Hondas, which I have more confidence in, even if the Japanese > Korean is a narrative that’s not necessarily true. Regardless, I’m skeptical.
Have you considered the previous gen Mazda 3? I really like them, and they hold up well. My dad’s ‘15 has needed nothing except oil changes (he hasn’t even replaced the tires!) and is a lot of fun to push in the twisties. It’s an auto, but it’s a very good one. I hear the manual is good.
Has a lot of tech like swiveling headlights, Bluetooth stereo/phone, blind spot monitoring, etc.
I’d guess you could find one for a lot less than 20k.
Edit: I’m seeing a few for 15k or less in my area with less than 50k.
Tony Sestito said:The Civic 1.5 Turbo fueling issues... that's not great either! If what I am reading is true, that's a lot of fuel getting into the oil. Doesn't sound great for longevity, and judging by my current car, I will likely have this for a while.
I am so hoping this isn’t the case with my new Si. I have dealt with enough grief over my later half of GTI ownership, and I just want a fun car to reliably work for the next 10-15 years.
Regarding the Civic Sport tgat you mentioned Tony, oddly enough test driving one of those with the 6MT is what steered me to the Si. Nice general package, solid body structure, good sightlines, good enough interior materials, but the ~ 160 hp / 140 ft lbs was only adequate but not really fun. I started looking at the upcharge to go to the Si from there, and (from my perspective) the $3400 upcharge bought alot of content.
I was initially interested in the Elantra GT N Line, but could not find any dealer at that time within 200 mikes that had any N Lines in stock even with the optional DCG. So, had to cross that option off the list pretty quickly.
Long story short: this is in my driveway now instead of a Mazda.
I will post more when I am less zonked. I spent a full day plus overtime getting the deal done.
Thank you everyone for your input!
Looks pretty nice! Congrats!
And... what is it?
In reply to CyberEric :
2020 Kia Forte GT. 6 speed manual!
In reply to Tony Sestito :
Thats how you #savethemanuals
Looks great!
Yay! I did it again.
Nicely done. Congratulations!
Seems possibly lucky that you found that one, as an inventory search shows no GT’s that I can find, including both DSG’s as well as manuals, anywhere near where I am in the Cincinnati area. GT Lines models with the non turbo 2.0, but no actual GT’s. Different in your area, Tony?
I’ve literally never seen one in person! I think it looks quite good. Most attractive Kia I’ve seen.
Did you end up driving the VW or Honda, Tony?
In reply to CyberEric :
I didn't know these things even existed until right before I posted this thread; first one I saw in person was the one that followed me home yesterday. I didn't get to drive a Civic Si; the one I was looking at driving had sold and there are no more 2020's that were nearby enough to check out. I had two other test drives scheduled after looking at the Kia: a 2018 Mazda 3 Grand Touring hatch, and a 2019 Jetta GLI S. I didn't make it that far.
In reply to einy (Forum Supporter) :
The dealer up the road had two: this one and a DCT car (also black) and that one had the GT2 package, so it had heated/cooled full leather seats. I really would have liked those, but they aren't available on the 6MT cars for some dumb reason. I saw a few other dealers that had them, but they are scarce on the ground. I've never even seen one in the flesh before yesterday.
Ok, so here it goes:
I scheduled some test drives at a few different places yesterday in the quest for a new car. The goal was to find something for right around $20k-under, and get as much as possible for the 3. Had a 2018 3 Grand Touring 6MT hatch and a 2019 Jetta GLI lined up, but the Kia dealer was literally on the way there, so we popped in there first. I had wanted to take out a 2020 Civic Si as well, but the last one at the local dealer sold last week. Bummer.
Anyway, I took the car out, and was pleasantly surprised with it. The benchmark being my own Mazda 3, the car was faster, handled better, and felt good to drive. Honestly, the car reminded me A LOT of my friend's old 2009 Civic Si sedan, replacing the high-winding Vtec mill with a turbo engine with some low-end grunt, and that is a very good thing. The seats are great; supportive, not over-bolstered, and fat guy friendly. Clutch is light, but feels good, brakes are fantastic, and the shifter is "good enough"; not quite as "snickety" as the Mazda's was, but it feels good with slightly longer throws. Unexpectedly, the car's exhaust is a little rowdy. It crackles and pops a bit and makes turbo sounds.
After that drive, I never made it to the other dealers. This was the one.
So, we started the dance of negotiating on the car, and we came to a fair deal, although it took literally all day. Got there at 9:30AM and didn't get home until almost 6PM, maybe later. In the middle of that, I had to go home and clean out the Mazda.
That's me, all sad, like I'm losing my best friend. This car got me through some tough times and did everything I ever asked it to with a smile. I feel like I failed it by letting it go, but cars come and go and you gotta do what ya gotta do. I'll do a post-mortem in my Mazda 3 thread.
But we're here to talk about this.
This is a 2020 Kia Forte GT in Aurora Black Pearl.
Wheels are 18x7.5, with 225/40/18 tires. You can get summer rubber for $200 more, but I am fine with all seasons. Behind the fronts are 12" discs, which are upgraded over whatever the stock Fortes have.
Inside, you get pleather/cloth seating with red piping and GT embroidery, a flat bottom steering wheel that's similar to the one in the Stinger, machined aluminum pedals, and a whole lotta black plastic and "soft touch" stuff.
Under the hood lives the 1.6L GDI Turbo 4-cylinder, good for 201hp/195tq. My Mazda was almost identical under the hood, save for the turbo stuff. I know a lot of modern 4's are, but I already know where everything is!
Under that small engine cover is all of this. Everything looks like it makes sense; nothing weird here. Nice.
And the other stuff:
-Infotainment is decent. 8" touchscreen, but they do encourage some touching while driving, which is a surprise. Kinda odd. Some stuff can be done with the steering wheel and some buttons under the radio, but not everything.
-Android Auto works really well here. It's integrated nicely. You do have to have it plugged in via USB to use it.
-Stereo sounds good. It "bumps" and "slaps", as my 18 year old nephew says.
-Lots-o-trip computer stuff, logging of various data, and more. I still have to figure it all out.
-It has a wireless charging shelf. Cool.
-The console lid doesn't slide forward. I liked that on the Mazda. The lesser Fortes can get that as an option, so I'll swap one in later.
-Lots of other small thoughtful touches. You can turn on/off any of the driving nannies at any time, which is cool.
And then there's "Sport Mode". Pressing the Sport button on the console brings up a pic of the car, and it turns red, because RED MEANS FAST. The steering immediately tightens up, the already burbly exhaust gets burblier (pretty sure it's simulated, but whatever, I'm 16 inside and it's awesome) and most importantly, throttle response gets better and the car does seem to go faster. I briefly read somewhere that someone dyno'ed their car with and without Sport Mode on and it made more power/boost with it on. I'm not sure about that, but the Butt Dyno definitely says there's a difference. I do wish it had a LSD, but I don't plan on tracking/autox with this car, so that's ok. It still gets off the line quick enough.
I had time to drive it all over the place today, and it's a lot more fun than I ever imagined a Kia would be. With mixed driving, I am averaging about 30mpg. Not too bad, and it keeps going up as I drive it more. It's comfortable, although it does have a firm ride and not "bank vault quiet" like the 2020 Mazda 3 I drove. This may sound weird, but this car feels like what the Mazda 3 used to be: a low-priced, fun car that handles well and is sporty enough to be an interesting daily driver. It has that edge that the 3 no longer has. It's like a 2/3's Mazdaspeed 3 in sedan form. I dig it.
I'll post up a maintenance/driving log/build thread soon.
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