Wow that guy likes to put his fingers awfully close to the spinny bits of the angle grinder
Wow that guy likes to put his fingers awfully close to the spinny bits of the angle grinder
And yet, at his age, appears to still have his fingers. 
Let's just accept that a 2.5 NC is more reliable than a 2.5 Boxster you could probably get for around the same money. And that it's probably faster. But I'm curious as to how much?
Cool thread. I feel like just this long series of pics and captions could make a lot of people who were on the fence suddenly willing to jump in.
Another future option for NCs is that Track Dog Racing just announced they are starting development on a Rotrex supercharger kit for the NC. I have their NA/NB kit, and it pulls like a freight train. Interesting to see what they do on the NC.
I like the NC, but since my purpose of owning a Miata is primarily street class autocross, I'm not really looking at them. I hope they get moved to another class eventually.
If I could own another one for a fun driver, the 2.5 swap sounds great.
stuart in mn said:For us uninitiated people, what car does the 2.5 liter engine come from?
On page #1 it says that Goodwin only charges $1,500 for the labor on this engine swap. That sounds like a very good value (expect that for me Goodwin is on the other side of the country.)
This lead me to wonder just how much a junkyard 2.5L would sell for. I hopped on the car-part.com and searched Ford Escape. I got this range of good prices in my area:
On page #1 it says that Goodwin only charges $1,500 for the labor on this engine swap. That sounds like a very good value
Yeah, if nothing else about this thread tells you that the swap is easy, that should!
Any other thoughts on the engine character for this swap? How fun is the engine? While a cam swap doesn't bring a big power increase, does it significantly enhance the character of the engine?
In reply to John Welsh :
Those are all high prices. I've gotten 2 from LKQ for the low $300s with under 30K miles.
In reply to bmw88rider :
Wow, even more impressive.
Yeah kinda wish they had not added the improvements they did, just to show a back to back with stock for stock.
Still, the improvements added weren’t too extravagant, but maybe not something many shade tree swappers would do.
Glad to see the swap get a more focused documentation with the clear whys and why nots spelled out. Makes this much easier for those considering it at home.
Jeremy, BTW your ecotec swap vibrated due to the race engine mounts plus the lack of balance shafts. Put proper mounts in and it might be livable, hard to say since it appears that solid mounts are all that is available for that swap. It should be noted that manufacturers don’t just pay Mitsubishi for balance shaft licenses for the fun of it, in the case of the Porsche 2.5/3.0 engines they kept the engines from breaking things, on top of reducing NVH for the drivers. Other manufacturers may have similar issues to overcome, so don’t be surprised when the balance shaft-less engines potentially have issues downstream.
In reply to Stefan :
I've never thought of balance shafts in the context of the harmonics causing engine damage. It seems to me that deserves consideration when deciding whether to retain them, especially in high RPM applications.
Stefan said:It should be noted that manufacturers don’t just pay Mitsubishi for balance shaft licenses for the fun of it, in the case of the Porsche 2.5/3.0 engines they kept the engines from breaking things, on top of reducing NVH for the drivers.
Except for in the curious case of the Jeep 2.5L, which by the accounts of all Chrysler techs, ran smoother after the balance shaft chain broke.
NickD said:Stefan said:It should be noted that manufacturers don’t just pay Mitsubishi for balance shaft licenses for the fun of it, in the case of the Porsche 2.5/3.0 engines they kept the engines from breaking things, on top of reducing NVH for the drivers.
Except for in the curious case of the Jeep 2.5L, which by the accounts of all Chrysler techs, ran smoother after the balance shaft chain broke.
That may say more about the engineering team than about balance shafts in general.
Any dyno results?
Floating Doc said:NickD said:Stefan said:It should be noted that manufacturers don’t just pay Mitsubishi for balance shaft licenses for the fun of it, in the case of the Porsche 2.5/3.0 engines they kept the engines from breaking things, on top of reducing NVH for the drivers.
Except for in the curious case of the Jeep 2.5L, which by the accounts of all Chrysler techs, ran smoother after the balance shaft chain broke.
That may say more about the engineering team than about balance shafts in general.
Which Jeep 2.5L? The old GM iron duke 2.5L or the Chrysler 2.5L?
The GM 2.5L was never known for idle quality and yes, Chrysler used it for many years in Jeeps and other vehicles after they bought Jeep/AMC (one of the many reasons why manufacturer shared drivetrains tend to screw up classing more often than not).
The Chrysler 2.5L had balance shafts, roller rocker camshafts and in Turbo form, sequential EFI to help reduce NVH. The Trucks had TBI so they just sucked and we’re typically found on the low end rigs that hadn’t bought the larger engine model.
bmw88rider said:In reply to John Welsh :
Those are all high prices. I've gotten 2 from LKQ for the low $300s with under 30K miles.
Yep, this. I got mine from them via eBay for less than $300. It did have valve cover damage, though.
Jesus, $1,800.00 for a swapped engine and .5L of displacement? That may just be the cheapest swap ever in a Miata, that’s done by a real shop. (Not by Bubba Taniguchi, who watched a YouTube video 15mins beforehand.)
Would this engine attached to a Miata gearbox be a good candidate for an MGB? Assuming I could make it fit in the engine bay?
Pete
That's basically the drivetrain from the LE50. It uses the 2.0, so you just have to deal with some extra height.
I'm also curious about deleting the balance shafts. I feel like the millions and millions spent on engine development by OEMs wouldn't have added extra cost and complexity for no reason.
I really loved my NC, and an easy well documented swap would consider me picking up an NC and swapping it vs getting an ND.
Except for in the curious case of the Jeep 2.5L, which by the accounts of all Chrysler techs, ran smoother after the balance shaft chain broke.
I dont know about the old Iron Duke but the AMC 2.5 didn't have balance shafts and the Chrysler 2.5 wasn't used in Jeeps that I can remember.
I have removed balance shafts from pretty much all my 2.5 Chryslers. My results have actually varied but i think more on the condition of the engine mounts than anything else. I've had some where you just couldn't tell. I tried solid mounts on one and it was torture. I have heard of engines with crank-mounted oil pumps cracking oil pump gears at high rpms due to some kind of bad harmonics but I dont think it had to do with the absence of balance shafts.
Only once in my life have i seen mis-timed balance shafts. The engine ran like it had a dead miss, but worse. Serious shaking.
In reply to z31maniac :
I thought Ford used this same engine, but without the balance shafts in the later Rangers. I could have that wrong, too.
DeadSkunk said:In reply to z31maniac :
I thought Ford used this same engine, but without the balance shafts in the later Rangers. I could have that wrong, too.
'01 up got the 2.3 version, sans balance shafts.
bluej said:DeadSkunk said:In reply to z31maniac :
I thought Ford used this same engine, but without the balance shafts in the later Rangers. I could have that wrong, too.
'01 up got the 2.3 version, sans balance shafts.
Did it have a different crank? Same rev limit? Hp/TQ output? etc.
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