Let's talk about the mid-eighties Porsche 944

So I've always liked the 944, and there are no mid-sventies Celica GTs for sale nearby, so I am probably going to look at a 944 this weekend. The car is about 2 hours away from me, and the ad reads as follows:

Craigslist ad:1987 Porsche 944 - $4200 Looking to sell my 1987 Porsche 944. I bought it in hopes to replace the burgundy interior with all black and got some of it done but i'm looking to sell to buy another vehicle. It runs great and drives good just needs alignment and some tires but runs and drives. It has a new battery, fuel pump, fuel injectors, fluids just changed, nice rims from a newer turbo Porsche, and only 93,000 miles. Needs cleaned up a little bit but not much to make it a great car. I have black seats, black dash, black door panels, and all the other expensive interior pieces that will come with it. 5 speed manual call or text for any questions. Price obo let me know what you have to trade only stick shift cars, trucks, or street legal motorcycles.

In subsequent correspondence with the seller he has stated:

The car needs an alignment and the wheels need to be balanced because it shakes at around 50.

A/C needs to be charged, but the blower and compressor work. He's not sure about the timing belt but he "inspected it and it looks as good as new so its safe to drive".

He does not have the original wheels .

The title is already notarized.

Are there any specific things that I should check on this model? I have never even driven one but I am pretty sure I'm gonna like it. What would your concerns be, and what should I be looking at doing in the near future as far as preventive maintenance. I think the timing belt needs to be changed since the history is unclear, because it's an interference engine, but what else might need attention?

Oh yeah, pics:

I am looking for a good daily driver, as my truck is really racking up the miles lately. It would be nice to be able to carry more than one passenger, and I have skinny friends who can fit in the back.

I have nothing to add but, I'd like to tag along and live vicariously.

I have wanted a German GT car for quite some time now but lack the courage to pull the trigger on one.

Make that maroon and it was the first porsche I lusted after. My neighbor had one and I really wanted to buy it until I talked to my insurance agent and I asked him what my insurance payment would be like and he just laughed. Few years later I drove my first porsche, a 924S.

The clutch on those is either really expensive or really time consuming to change, depending on if you do it yourself or pay someone. I think the last one I looked at that needed a clutch, my local specialist mumbled something about $2500 to do the clutch.

Check for leaks around the hatch, some of them like to soak the luggage compartment. Also, make sure the hatch unlocks properly, a lot of them have issues with that. Oh, and then the heavy glass hatch won't stay open because the struts are tired.

Given the condition of the interior, it looks overpriced. I don't like the wheels, but that's just me.

Clock is most like not readable (bulb probably burned out, pain to change). Make sure everything electric works.

Oh, and I never believe the "a/c just needs a charge" bit. The question is always, why did the seller not recharge it then?

In typical Porsche fashion, they don't have a lot of low-end torque. For that you either need the one-year only 2.7 944 (1989 only) or the 3L S2.

Damn. Three posts before I can get one in.

The owner sounds like a lazy, easily bored person. I rarely buy a car from someone to busy or lazy to give it the good cleaning it needs. See if you can get any useful info about whether the clutch has been done.

There's not a lot here right now, but I'd keep an eye on this page. Sellers who advertise in the PCA club classifieds tend to have cars that have been kept up fairly well.

http://www.carolinas-pca.com/Store/Classifieds.aspx

Also, check the Pelican classifieds.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/

You have sent me to craigslist...

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/5201323271.html (I know, I know, it's a 924. )

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/5170187535.html

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/5182944521.html

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/5142498725.html

Timing belt needs to be changed every three years or 40k. Don't drive it without documentation that it has been done in that timeframe or you risk lunching the valves/head.

So for this one? Tow it.

Plan on doing the timing belt, balance shaft belt, water pump and rollers for about $800 in parts. I'd also replace the cooling hoses while you're in there as they tend to be poorly maintained and I lost a headgasket on my 944 turbo due to that. Hoses are another $100 or so.

Rubber center on clutches fail and make annoying clunking noises. Expensive parts and a fair amount of work to do as a DIY. I strongly suggest buying a clutch kit, FOES and a set of seals for the engine so you can pull the engine, reseal and replace the timing belt and clutch all at once and be done with it.

Engine isn't terribly exciting, a throttle cam, advance the cam about 4 degrees and add a chip and it helps a bit. An aluminum flywheel helps it get to redline a bit faster at the expense of being a bit more annoying in stop/go traffic. It is pretty strong and handles a lot of abuse quite well. 300k isn't unheard of.

Steering system likes to leak, usually due to age, but also because someone put Power Steering fluid in it instead of ATF. The rack and pump are rebuild able and the reservoir has a filter in it so it has to be replaced every so often, but it's only a $15 part.

Electrical issues creep in from time to time, but the systems aren't too bad to troubleshoot and repair. There are options for DIY tuning like Rogue Tuning and even some adaptation of MegaSquirt if you're so inclined.

Otherwise it's an old chassis based off a cast off VW project so it uses reversed MK1 Rabbit strut-based front suspension and slightly altered Super Beetle rear suspension with an Audi gearbox mounted in the rear connected to a Porsche designed engine in the front. It works pretty well and is well balanced and can be driven pretty much anyway you'd like.

They are still heavily raced, so lots of solutions and parts are available still to make them better, especially when you look at using parts off cars with better option packages (M030, optional limited slip, etc.). Look at the Spec 944 website for some ideas and solutions.

There's a lot of great info on buying and maintaining a 944 over on http://Clarks-garage.com I highly suggest you check it out. Rennlist, Pelican Parts, and 944Online are also loaded with info and marque-specific mouth breathers that worship at the 944 alter, so take some of it with a grain of salt :)

In reply to The_Jed:

BTW, that 924 is a euro model so it has 125hp and the preferred euro bumpers and lack of stupid corner reflectors. Biggest problem with the 924 is that more and more random parts are becoming NLA (passenger motor mount for example) and it has CIS and many people just can't deal with that.

I love my 924 and I sold my 944 Turbo and kept it, so that should tell you how much fun they can be. They are very pure in feel thanks to the manual steering, lighter weight and a bit more interesting feeling engine.

924board.org is where you want to go for all that is the 924.

Of course without the 924, the 944 wouldn't exist and Porsche itself may not exist either.

Yeezus.... All those issues.... Gross! Why not compromise and get a mid eighties celica?

Because the mid eighties celiac would have issues too and parts might be even harder to come by.

To me that is a $2,000 car (max). That car has alot of deferred maintenance and that is pricy. You can get much better car for the asking price. The hacked interior is a cost not a plus. The extra interior parts means nothing. The seller probibly realized changing a entire interior is alot more work than many people realize.

I wouldn't go more than 2 years 30k miles on the timing belt. I had one break at like 30,004. Also vibration probably means lower control arm bushings. If you don't do these yourself you are closing in on $2k in repairs.

cheapest way to get the clutch changed on one is to contact a PCA Club Racer who races in SP1, SP2 or SP3 class and offer to pay entry into their next race in exchange for them performing the labor on your clutch. Bonus is few people will have performed more 944/951 clutch jobs, often with just handtools in a paddock area under a pop-up canopy using aux. lighting. get exhaust hardware to replace when doing the clutch as well.

The AC doesn't need a charge. It's leaking. That means some part in the system is broken, needs to be replaced, THEN it'll hold a charge.

Don't even think about buying one of these without getting a PPI done by a good Indy Porsche shop that has experience with 944's.

There are several very expensive things that can fail on these and unless you plan on wrenching on it yourself you can very easily spend your purchase price on it over again in maintenance.

Point: ALL 944s are mid-80s.

In reply to Knurled:

Save for the 944's that were build in the early 1980's, late 1980's, or the early 1990's?

Face it, you just want to be Jake.

I know nothing about the cars, so I shall limit my contributions to that picture.

Don't we all want to be Jake? Fancy house, hot girlfriend and a Porsche all before graduation :D. Is it wrong that I would be torn between the 944 and the Celica?! Maybe consider a Conquest? Hmmmm

Yeah but Jake now works 3rd shift customer service for an insurance company who undervalues 2DR manual XJs, wears khakis and sounds hideous

In reply to Iusedtobefast:

Factory TBI turbo and drag link steering shudder. That isn't a sports car, it's a Japanese Mustang without all of the aftermarket support.

Or it's a 7series BMW without the big motor and comfort.

Thanks for all the input gang, I think you've managed to talk me off the ledge on this one. Plus the seller has since also stated that both the fuel gauge and oil pressure gauge are "stuck". Just sounds like this one is out of my price range regardless of asking price.

I am still hopeful that I may find a good deal on a 944 with a better maintenance record someday, just not a red one, red is my least favorite color on this car for some reason.

I have been looking on Craigslist with the parameters of less than $8000, manual transmisson, pre-1999 year and there's a lot of other great cars in that range. Although, if there was a '70s Celica on there I would be driving to look at it right meow. I just have a huge weakness for them. It's one of my many character flaws.

If anyone wants to help me hunt down some good daily drivers in the Raleigh area I am very open to suggestions! I prefer a coupe over a sedan, but it's not a deal breaker. I do prefer older cars, new cars just ain't got no soul. Hell, most cars from the 90s ain't got one either but anything newer than that is just appliance-shaped in my budget. I am trying very hard to only look at cars that are not too much of a project, but I do want something fun and somewhat cool. Absolutely no convertibles. Wagons are cool. Hmmmm. Sees like I am casting a pretty wide net, maybe I don't really know what I want. Bonus is I don't need a car immediately, so I have the opportunititty to wait for the right vehicle, I just don't want to. Le sigh.

1986 Porsche 944 Turbo track car with the following mods:

Guards LSD Paragon Race clutch Racer's Edge Lower Control Arms (early) Racer's Edge Camber Plates and Caster Blocks Racer's Edge Rear Elephant bushings Racer's Edge inner and outter Delrin Bushings LEDA dampers Front Hypercoil 500 lb springs (8" x 2.5") Rear Hypercoil 600 lb springs (8" x 2.25") plus helpers 944S2 Spindles/Hubs/Front rotors Strut tower brace (KLA) Driver's seat: Recaro SPG Profi Passenger's seat: Sparco Sprint V Fire System: Spa AFFF MFM-400S Custom rollbar (Kenny Shreves / Werkstatt) Gutted interior Sunroof delete Phone Dials 7"/8" x 16" early offset Stainless steel brake lines VDO oil temp gauge Lindsay fuel lines Test Pipe Odyssey 680 battery with rennline kill switch and mounting

Asking price: $6,000. Contact Dave at cup944@aol.com

I'd go the route I posted above, it's owned by the 944 Cup director, I cut and pasted the ad from the series newsletter.

turboswede wrote: Because the mid eighties celiac would have issues too and parts might be even harder to come by.

Excuse me? Name one part for my '85 GT that's not available. I'll eat my hat. If it's not available as OeM, it's definitely available as an upgrade. Trust me. I own one.