Lightest mid-engine car?

What is the lightest mid-engine car from the factory? Newer or older, and no one off unobtainables.

The original Europa. 

Do three-wheelers count?  IIRC the Reliant Robin is front-mid and weighs under a thousand pounds. :)

Edit:  There's also the Isetta.  4 wheels, mid engine, a thousand pounds.

John Welsh said:

The original Europa. 

Yep the S1 Europa is the lightest. Close behind is the S1 Elise.

New request: please list the weight along with your answer. Asking for a friend.

codrus said:

...front-mid...

...Is not mid-engine.

S1 Europa: 1350~1570lbs

S1 Elise: 1598~1664lbs

Driven5 said:

codrus said:

...front-mid...

...Is not mid-engine.

Technically it is, engine is between the axles

Gordon Murray would like to remind you that his LCC Rocket = 840lbs

X1/9 and 914 fall into to that right about a ton category. Those would be the other 2 right there. They can both be in the 1800's with some weight reduction. 

Well technically the LCC Rocket is a production car, but they're pretty unobtainable with less than 50 built, and going for around $100k these days.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Technically it's a marketing term that was invented and (improperly) defined by Mazda and regurgitated by Nissan, in an attempt to make their cars seem more special than they really are.  It was repeated until people actually started to believe it...At which point they became compelled to unhelpfully interject this false-definition 'loophole' that nobody asked about into seemingly every discussion that comes up about  'mid-engine' cars, which were obviously meant in regards to the engine being behind the driver.

If it was a legitimate term, it would be applied equally to the front axle as it is the rear axle.  But alas, it's not.  If 1cm of any engine component hangs behind the rear axle, it's still mid-engine rather than suddenly somehow magically becoming rear engine.  But if 1cm of any engine component hangs in front of the front axle, it's suddenly somehow magically front engine and no longer front-mid engine.  The day people start basing it on the location of the center of mass of the engine at both ends of the car, rather than arbitrarily on the entirety of the engine for only the front, is the day I'll concede that it will become a legitimate term...Which coincidentally will also be the day that it completely loses it's luster for both marketeering and useless automotive trivia.

Several used Kei cars are now available for sale in the US:
Autozam AZ-1 1587lb
Honda Beat 1675lb

In both cases, a sportbike motor swap would be interesting

There are also several bubble cars around 500lbs.

GameboyRMH said:

Well technically the LCC Rocket is a production car, but they're pretty unobtainable with less than 50 built, and going for around $100k these days.

Well yeah, if you want to introduce all kinds of rules and limitations on what was an open ended question then sure, it barely qualifies as a production vehicle. But as any weekend warrior will tell you, barely qualifying is still qualifying.

Regardless of the question about front-mid vs rear-mid, it's pretty clear the Isetta would count, and it's considerably lighter than a Europa:

Also, an Ariel Atom is 1350 pounds.

1901-1907 Oldsmobile...700 pounds!

Four wheels, engine behind the driver, less than $20K, available in the states. List weights if you know them.

Why does he want to know?

Pete

BAC Mono is also pretty light at 1190lbs

Renault Le Car (first gen) the engine is completely behind the front axle and weighs from 1,610–1,790 lb.

D2W said:

Four wheels, engine behind the driver, less than $20K, available in the states. List weights if you know them.

I'd guess the Isetta with those at around 1000lbs.

But realistically it seems like a Europa would be the best bet. (wiki says 1350 to 1570lbs)

GameboyRMH said:

S1 Europa: 1350~1570lbs

Given this board's ability to find virtually free Europa. it's a wonder why nobody has tried to make a DM or EM version of one for the challenge. 

alfadriver said:

GameboyRMH said:

S1 Europa: 1350~1570lbs

Given this board's ability to find virtually free Europa. it's a wonder why nobody has tried to make a DM or EM version of one for the challenge. 

because no one has actually done much with the free ones that have floated around the board due to the realities of the envelope one is working in. 

In reply to Stefan :

ye of little faith.  

even the Lancia Montecarlo, if you can find one, clocks in around 2100 to 2200 pounds. Unfortunately, it is hard to actually build a light Mid-engined car. The engine is right where all the car's torsional strength would be.

alfadriver said:

In reply to Stefan :

ye of little faith.  

How many modern longitudinal FWD drivetrains do you know of?

Old FWD Audi/odd-ball VW rebrands of Audi's?

Chrysler LH/Prowler? - Electronic Automatic only

Acura Legend? - Electronic Automatic only

Now of those choices, what would you use to repower a Europa?

How many would actually fit the engine bay?

How much weight would you need to add in bracing to keep the chassis from becoming a pretzel on the first Solo or Drag launch?

A standard FWD drivetrain won't work without building a new chassis and effectively building a MidLana within the Europa envelope. 

Sure it can be done, but it still won't win in the drags, the wheelbase is too short and getting enough power in it would make meeting the safety requirements nearly impossible, let alone limiting the drivers you can actually use in the cars due to their size.

I'd love to see it done, but realistically I don't see it happening.