nutherjrfan said:Came across this a day or two ago.
Main pic in the post below.
$6k and a a hot lookin' mess.
Looks a bit more solidly put together than some commercial motorhomes out there that you'd find at the price.
nutherjrfan said:Came across this a day or two ago.
Main pic in the post below.
$6k and a a hot lookin' mess.
Looks a bit more solidly put together than some commercial motorhomes out there that you'd find at the price.
In reply to P3PPY :
Everybody's standards are different, of course, but I think you're going to be disappointed with the concept of camping in a shuttle bus/short bus unless you're going to violate the "no projects" mandate. You'll want to add window screens at a bare minimum, but probably also A/C. If it gets chilly, you'll want insulation and a furnace of some sort. You can always use the campground bathrooms and showers, but after a couple rounds of those the idea of having indoor plumbing will bubble to the top. Cooking can be done tent-camping style with a Coleman stove and a cooler, but running water is nice as is a fridge. You'll want some lighting and some other creature comforts and eventually you're basically building an RV. Which is a cool project, but it's definitely a project.
I also wouldn't expect that you'll see a huge savings in the grand scheme of things. If you can store the thing at home, that helps, but between maintenance, insurance, purchase cost and depreciation, fuel costs, and various camping fees and such, you've got to do a whole lot of camping in order to amortize the fixed costs enough to make it a savings. Personally, I find that I really like to do camp in the RV, so it means that we spend about the same that we'd spend if we rented a condo for a couple weeks a year. But I honestly try not to think about the financials that much!
Depending on family size, a conversion van plus a pop-up might be a good compromise.
Regarding the used RV, could you replace mattresses and toilet seat as a compromise?
A 2001 7.3 powerstroke shuttle for under $4k is tempting
Many of these are used to shuttle either people airports, children or the elderly and thus they've been sitting fairly unused for months by businesses that are either struggling or could use an influx of cash by selling a depreciating asset, that they write off the depreciation on anyway, in order to invest in new systems that better serve them to implement adaption to the current reality. And thus, these shuttles have become cheap. Especially when you factor in that new ones aren't selling at all.
As an avid RVer, full-timer for nearly a decade, and grew up spending 1/4 of my life in an RV, I can't in good conscience recommend just buying a used RV. It has to be the right RV from a very shallow pool of acceptable examples. RVs since about 1995 have taken a turn for the horrible. When I go to an RV show and the brand new display model already has cabinet hinges that are sagging, exposed edges of lauan panels with a woodgrain sticker on the front, and the carpet is already matted and looks 30 years old from the 300 footsteps on it, I just cry. Back in 2000 I bought a brand new 31' Fleetwood travel trailer as a leftover 2000 model. I had owned two Fleetwoods before, a 93 Prowler and an 88 Wilderness. Both were anvils. The 2000 was a disappointment. It lasted three years of full timing before it more or less collapsed under the weight of it's slide room. I paid $17k for that crap. Go to an RV show today, and the brand new ones already look almost as bad as my wasted 2000, and they're asking $38k for them. Mom and Dad just bought a Forrest River TT. A brand that used to be very good. Two seasons of occasional use and it's wasted. The upholstery is shot, the cabinet doors have fallen off, and the door frame for the bathroom has spread so far that the door won't latch.
If you're considering an RV, feel free to reach out to me. I'll do my best to steer you right.
My ex SWMBO (now bestie) was looking for a short bus to convert and also looked at some motorhomes. Right now is a super weird time to be looking at RVs because they are selling for three times what they should be. But she and I sat down and did a budget on converting a short bus or a transit bus. For the same money (but a lot more work) she could have a very nice conversion bus with heat, A/C, running water (but no holding tanks, so it would be a portable toilet, or as I call it - the E36 M3 briefcase), and the pride of doing it herself. If she is careful, she could even find nice cast-offs like quartz counters with a sink for little or nothing, free cabinets from a remodel, and cheap furniture. She already has a free futon frame which she will use as a couch/bed... although she hasn't bought the bus yet :)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Yes, a few years ago I rented a large box truck from Penske with air brakes. They never asked about my license endorsements.
most 26' and smaller box trucks do not have pure air brakes. They have what is referred to as "air over oil" where the truck have both Hydraulic and air systems working in tandem to increase heavy braking. Anybody can drive them, even commercially.
I won't speak for Ian, but these are genuine air brakes. Maxis, bladders, regs, torsion legs, and S-cams.
And it doesn't matter anymore with the new DOT regs. Air brakes no longer require an endorsement. New air brake systems are built with so many redundancies that the reason for needing the education is all but eliminated. Back in the day, you had an compressor and a tank. If the tank blew, your brakes locked up and you had to know what to do. These days they're all two or three tank systems with isolators, computer sensors, and automatic braking. If you somehow miss the blaring buzzer and flashing lights warning you, the system on some will automatically reduce power and make you stop before the redundant systems even have to kick in.
In reply to MadScientistMatt :
Not sure who Kevin is. I'm sure we're not alone in our Church Bus experience.
In reply to Penske Truck Talk:
We rented a Penske a few winters ago after selling our Church Bus. They had two identical trucks in the yard: one rated over 26001 and one rated sub 26001. Identical trucks with different stickers in the door jamb. The heavier rated truck required a different license.
stanger_mussle (Forum Supporter) said:Doesn't Toyman have a former airport shuttle? He would be the guy to ask.
As a matter of fact, I do.
Mine is a 2007 Ford F450 with the 6L diesel. It's a pretty decent machine. It used to be a CARTA bus used to haul handicapped people to doctors offices and such. I bought it off Govdeals for $1500. It has 350k+- on it. My plan was to strip the drivetrain out of it and stuff it in SanFord. Instead it got used as a tow beast and family hauler for trips to the zoo or museum anything else I could think of. We would load the kids, grandkids and even the kids in-laws up and hit the road. We had a blast with it.
The only issue I ever had with it was a broken AC compressor clutch. Other than that it was pretty flawless.
The only reason it isn't still on the road and in use is the insurance was stupid expensive. State Farm would not write personal coverage on a commercial vehicle so it was costing me $600+ a year to keep it on the road. It is also due for tires. It's currently languishing behind my shop and being used as a storage building.
buzzboy said:In reply to MadScientistMatt :
Not sure who Kevin is. I'm sure we're not alone in our Church Bus experience.
One of my co-workers, races a Mazda MX-3 in Chump Car and sometimes posts here. He bought a Ford public transit bus with a wheelchair lift, blew up the alternator while towing the car to Florida - but wait, you didn't mention blowing up the transmission. Guess it was a different bus that ate an alternator while driving to a race in Florida. This is getting a bit spooky. (Well, it is October.)
Kevin finally replaced the bus with a more HOA-approved diesel Excursion.
In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :
I happen to be in SC right now so I started looking into insurance quotes, but it's probably for the best that due to recent changes in Michigan insurance laws, their website is inaccessible at the moment :P
mad_machine (Forum Supporter) said:Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Yes, a few years ago I rented a large box truck from Penske with air brakes. They never asked about my license endorsements.
most 26' and smaller box trucks do not have pure air brakes. They have what is referred to as "air over oil" where the truck have both Hydraulic and air systems working in tandem to increase heavy braking. Anybody can drive them, even commercially.
I don't know... I just remember it had the funky air-brake push button on the dash, whatever that does. I just needed a truck with a lift gate and that was all they had. Drove it to my ex's house, loaded up my tools, drove home, then dropped the truck off. The PITA part was it was so big it stuck out into the street in front of my house while I was unloading everything. I didn't really have time to crawl around under it to see how it worked. This was back in 2009. I don't know when the PA law changes Curtis referred to happened.
In reply to wae :
Trailer tires are relatively cheap but they don't like curbs much & there's a definite learning curve to towing in urban environs.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:mad_machine (Forum Supporter) said:Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Yes, a few years ago I rented a large box truck from Penske with air brakes. They never asked about my license endorsements.
most 26' and smaller box trucks do not have pure air brakes. They have what is referred to as "air over oil" where the truck have both Hydraulic and air systems working in tandem to increase heavy braking. Anybody can drive them, even commercially.
I don't know... I just remember it had the funky air-brake push button on the dash, whatever that does. I just needed a truck with a lift gate and that was all they had. Drove it to my ex's house, loaded up my tools, drove home, then dropped the truck off. The PITA part was it was so big it stuck out into the street in front of my house while I was unloading everything. I didn't really have time to crawl around under it to see how it worked. This was back in 2009. I don't know when the PA law changes Curtis referred to happened.
It wasn't a PA law change, it was federal. Each state used to have their own laws that were vaguely based on the Federal. When the new Federal DOT stuff came out (late 90s I think), many of the states' laws were absorbed, superceded, or became obsolete. The result was a more cohesive set of laws that applied to more states.
A little off topic, but... Air brakes have two separate air circuits; a service brake (pedal) and a parking brake (funky push button). The service brakes supply regulated air when you push the pedal. They fill an air bag on the axle which pushes a lever which turns a rod. On the end of the rod is an S-cam, so as the rod rotates the S-cam pushes out on the shoes like a traditional wheel cylinder would. The funky push button works in the opposite way. The brake shoes have a strong spring that is pushing them out mechanically. Default is brake shoes applied. When you push that button, it supplies air to a bladder that overcomes the spring pressure and releases the shoes. They do it this way so that if the truck sits and loses air pressure, the brakes don't release and the truck rolls away. The default is a mechanical application of the brakes that is released when you push that button allowing you to drive.
The original danger (and the need for the education and license endorsement) was because you needed to know how they operated so you could react if you started losing pressure. The problem is, if you start losing pressure, the parking brake system can no longer keep the shoes released. Once you drop below 60-70 psi, that button suddenly pops out and your brakes lock. Not good at 60 mph.
Modern systems have more computers, redundant tanks and systems, and other safety measures that the problem is all but eliminated, therefore they removed air brakes as an endorsement and anyone can drive with air brakes.
On old-school air brakes, the proper procedure for shut down after a trip was to cycle the brake pedal a bunch of times until that parking brake popped out on its own. The procedure was done to purge any water from the system. There is nothing scarier than being on the road with 55 vacationers behind you in a 1978 MCI and you realize as you are descending a mountain that the buzzer just came on and I was in real danger of complete braking failure. Someone who hadn't been trained in air brake operation would probably do the logical thing and slow down and stop... and kill everyone on the bus because the first time you hit the service brakes it might pop the parking brake. The proper procedure is to rev the crap out of it to try and build pressure. Downshift if you're descending, or if you're on a flat or going uphill, shift into neutral and floor it for max revs. If you have a jake or trans brake, use it instead of service brakes.
But, like I said... it's mostly a non issue anymore, so the endorsement went away.
The new commercial DOT code was re-vamped partly because of things like the air brake endorsement. In the past, the commercial code existed for two reasons; 1) education on commercial DOT laws since you were likely involved in interstate commerce and had to know how to conform, and 2) because commercial vehicles required very specific knowledge on how to operate commercial machinery. You couldn't take someone from their station wagon and put them in an air-brake, non-synchro, two-speed-rear axle, dual range trans, drop axle with tag steering, dump truck and expect them to know how to operate it. These days, many class B trucks and buses are not really much different from a motorhome, so the code was re-vamped to focus more on the commercial requirements and less on the equipment operation. After 50 years, finally we have a commercial license the focuses on the commercial part and not on the operation of the vehicle. For that reason, many larger vehicles can now be driven by normally-licensed drivers as long as they are not driving for pay and not using the vehicle as part of a commerce business.
When I got my CDL back in 1993, it was a one-week, two hour a day, in-person class with hands-on, in-vehicle training... and they had a brief chapter on hazmats and commerce. It was ALL about operating the vehicle. Now they care less about the vehicle operation and more where they SHOULD.... the commercial part of it.
In general (states may vary, especially CA), Class C is single vehicle under 26,000 gvwr, and trailer under 10,000 gvwr. Class B is single vehicle above 26k and trailer still below 10k. Class A is vehicle over 26k AND trailer over 10k. The commercial part is supposed to indicate whether or not the vehicle is being used in commerce.
PA only does non-commercial class C. If you are going to drive a vehicle (even non-commercially) that is over 26k gvw, you have to have a commercial license. So, if I take a job driving a 15 passenger van for a school, I need a commercial license because it's school transport. If I buy that 15 passenger van for personal use, I don't need a CDL to drive it. The same goes for a 72 passenger bus. If I'm hired to drive school kids, CDL. If I buy it for my personal use, PA looks the other way. Since I'm not using it commercially they don't care how many seats it has and I can drive it with a non-commercial license.
The confusion is real. The CDL portion of the license is supposed to indicate whether or not it's being used for commerce, but most states don't have a non-commercial class A. PA has non-com Class C, CDL-B and CDL-A. I think the confusion would be eliminated if the classes and the commercial part were separated.
I don't know why my wife was surprised by the fact, but I let her know that since she hadn't expressly forbidden the thought of a bus I was looking into one. She clarified that I would be the only one driving it because of the size and recommended a full size van since she's comfortable with it -- she learned to drive in a conversion van (note to self: teach the kids to drive in a retired Penske truck). Come to find out, she wasn't inherently opposed to the Wobbly Behemoth (E350 15 pass) just hated that it had had mice in it and that it was made out of rust.
With little kids, we try to drive thru the night while they sleep, spelling each other by sleeping in another seat- or small mattress before seats for kids ate up all the floor space - so I still think that a full size van is only half of the fix, but baby steps, baby steps.
no actual budget for it yet. I blew $2500 (and recouped only $1k) on the Wobbly Behemoth and the free rally/winter car has taken $1500 (we stayed on budget!!) in upkeep and repairs. But once I do, I might try to pick one up on our next road trip down south and tow the minivan back!!
That part about insurance cost on a ole bus can be very real.
You should be able to get an answer with just a VIN.
I would find a listing of something you might like that gives a VIN. Give that VIN to your insurance company with the question of, "I'm thinking of buying this, what would it cost me?"
The same day (or next day) you should have an answer. Do this before you buy with anything "non-traditional."
In reply to John Welsh (Moderate Supporter) :
Yep. I didn't do this. The 2007 E450 was only available as a cut-a-way and was never sold as a non commercial vehicle. That is the only way State Farm would insure it. I considered installing a bed, bathroom and stove so I could get it retitled as a RV. SanFord is a school bus titled as a RV. Insurance on it is only about $90 a year.
Another interesting bus as an RV find... although this could be more of an anti-church bus, unless you were worshipping certain classical fertility goddesses.
No, the pole isn't a fire slide down from one of the top buses.
Lil' Mynx makes a gorgeously-machined mount that could make that a spinning pole. And a nice LED spotlight installed in the ceiling would give a pretty dramatic effect. A pinkish/redish light apparently hides cellulite really well, so I'm told.
Insurance and registration costs are definitely something I have paid attention to living in PA. Here a passenger van is often titled as a "station wagon"- no matter how big it is. Even my extended length E350 diesel that probably weighs north of 6000 lbs, empty. Thus the annual registration renewal is substantially less than if the van were a cargo version and titled as a truck. That said, at some point I will look into getting it re-titled as an RV for the lower insurance. Although being a passenger car, it is technically allowed on some roads around here that would normally be illegal for a vehicle its size.
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