Every time the family gets together the topic of a bus for road trips comes up. Legalities for MI aside, what do I need to know about something like this? Diesel mechanic friend said expect $1k in maintenance a year on a van-based shuttle bus, can I assume this is double?
One day this idea is going to have to either die or get executed on.
2008 Eldorado Easy Rider - $6,500
I just rode one in Detroit to the Ford River Rouge plant. It was a rattle trap and it drove me nuts how loud it was. Keep that in mind.
15 passengers, that means 15 seats including the driver. That is the maximum size bus you can drive without a CDL. This is why it is common when people buy school busses they remove many seats. If you're pulled over driving something that seats 16 you could get the hefty fine of driving without a license...commercial license.
Insurance. It can be hard to get simple auto insurance on a vehicle designed for more than 15 passengers even if you do remove seats. The insurance companies know you could just as easily reinstall the seats. They may want you to have commercial insurance and that's a whole lot more expensive. This to is why a lot of people get buses reclassified as motor homes.
Check your state for what it takes to be reclassified as a motorhome but aside from sleeping area, it usually requires two of the following three: cook, clean, crap. This is why you often see a microwave or just a simple burner stove for cooking, a simple sink for cleaning and/or a porta-potty.
Self maintenance: it ain't easy! You might think you'd be able to put on brake pads yourself, but... The tire/steel wheel combo is so heavy you can not manually lift it to just get the darn thing off/on. And, the floor jack and the jack stands needed are likely much beefier than anything you already own. If it does need a trip to the mechanic, you cant just take it to any local garage. You first need to verify if the garage even has a lift capable of that much weight.
Agreed that your best bet would be to make it a recreational vehicle after removing enough seats. You don't want to be caught with over 15 seats installed for sure.
As for maintenance, it's hard to find a garage big enough to pull them in to so that means doing it all outside. A hefty bottle jack and some 12 ton stands can be had for a couple bills at harbor freight. The wheels and tires are heavy, but it's doable to solo getting them on and off. I've done brakes and wheel bearings on my P30 chassis motorhome with 19.5" steel wheels. It's very fatiguing though since everything is just that much heavier.
I have no idea what it's like to try to service a diesel that's buried in the back of a bus, but since they're designed as fleet vehicles, one would except that they'd have taken maintenance in to consideration. But, then, one has been wrong before. They'll use gallons of oil, and need new fuel filters regularly. So the basic oil change can get spendy.
Drivetrain parts are probably fairly easy to come by, but you might need to visit a big truck shop for that. Chassis parts will depend on who made the chassis but you might end up in the truck shop for those as well. The upside to the van-based busses is that everything under the box is off-the-shelf Chevy or Ford and they tend to be fairly cheap.
Something to keep in mind is that a bus like that is designed to have good low speed pick up but a low cruising speed and the short wheelbase is for maneuverability around whatever airport/mall/etc where it spent it's life doing short stop and go driving.
A highway bus will be an entirely different animal.
How often do these road trips occur? Renting an RV once or twice a year would eliminate any maintenance/storage/insurance/licensing concerns.
But something Ford Econoline based. That allows you to register and insure it as a van. I have an ambulance that's registered and insured as a Ford e350. If you buy a bus you definitely need to convert the title to a motorhome title to save yourself from never ending headaches of trying to insure a commercial vehicle. Colorado has a checklist that requires you to meet 4 of 6 criteria for the conversion, but it varies hugely from state to state.
edit:
100% agree with the rental option also. Check out outdoorsy dot com. It's the Airbnb/Turo of RV rentals.
I find that vehicles like this seem easy to buy but then are generally hard or complex to live with unless you are already entrenched in the commercial diesel/heavy duty truck world. If you are not already in that world then its a whole new adventure of learning that world and the greater costs than come with that world.
Hmm, I dont see a plate on it in the photos. I wonder if they learned the hard way...
I would think that these are hi mileage chassis - meaning that they are meant to go a long time between servicing. Something rated for daily commercial duty will last a long time in residential duty (although sitting idle has its own issues).
If nothing else, the seats in that thing don't look like they'd be very comfortable for any ride much longer than from the airport terminal to the rental car lot.
I've done a bit of time in the truck/diesel repair world, so I didn't mind my forays into these areas. But the points made are spot on. All are doable, but go into it aware of the hurdles.
Rentals are shockingly expensive, but ownership is as well!
Lots of bus conversion advise is available.
My RV for sale is a bit more expensive, but already titled and insured as an RV!!!
Even in the heavy duty world, busses are weird. They use a lot of different parts that are kind of specialized. And as for maintenance access, bus fleets tend to have lifts. Our machanics hated working on them without one.
As far as the weight of wheels and tires goes, once you have it jacked up and the lugnuts of, you slide a 4ft prybar under the tire and lift and slide with one hand while controlling the top of the tire with the other. Reverse for install. It takes a bit of practice, but doesn't take a bunch of effort once you get the hang if it.
I would suggest an extended van or maybe a van based "short bus" for the intended use. Easier and cheaper to get parts.
$1k a year on maintenance? Maybe if it's in-service 16 hours a day every day. For as much as you'll drive it, expect $50 a year. That buys oil, a filter, and a fuel filter. Given it's size and year, it likely has an ISB in it which will pretty easily make 400-500k miles without any repairs.
I’d say PM Toyman - he has or had a bus.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:$1k a year on maintenance? Maybe if it's in-service 16 hours a day every day. For as much as you'll drive it, expect $50 a year. That buys oil, a filter, and a fuel filter. Given it's size and year, it likely has an ISB in it which will pretty easily make 400-500k miles without any repairs.
Not to be confrontational, but is that a realistic 2021 price? I'd struggle to do oil and filters on a diesel pickup for that.
One of my big gut checks on it would be tire prices. Big or small, they age out every 5-7 years or so. Roadside assistance for a tire would suuuuuck too. I'm not readily familiar with the prices, admittedly, but that's what I'd worry about.
What are your plans for it?
If it's in good shape Curtis is somewhat right in that for personal use the maintenance cost should be reasonable. However it could be a deferred maintenance nightmare waiting to happen. If the original operator was a transit system that used federal funds they had to keep the bus a minimum of 12 years. Most will keep it longer if it's not causing problems. This one is just beyond that mark, and it's current owner is looking to unload it. I'd be curious if some sort of mechanical issue is lurking in the near future.
Should that not be the case and the bus is good keep in mind a couple things. Like Datsun310Guy said, they're loud. they are built to ride at relatively low speeds on surface streets. There isn't enough sound deadening in the world to make them quiet at that age. it also likely has hard seats with no padding, the only comfortable seat will be the operators. The short wheelbase, long front overhang, longer rear overhang will give it some interesting ride qualities on the highway, particularly with worn out suspension bits. Expect it to have some pogo stick qualities at speed. If you're thinking a full RV conversion keep in mind too that this looks to be a low floor bus so packaging will be difficult with no underfloor space for tanks and such.
Also gearing. A lot of airport and other transport units don't expect to travel at more than 50MPH over their lifetime, so make sure you look at the ratios and what it means.
Apexcarver said:Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:$1k a year on maintenance? Maybe if it's in-service 16 hours a day every day. For as much as you'll drive it, expect $50 a year. That buys oil, a filter, and a fuel filter. Given it's size and year, it likely has an ISB in it which will pretty easily make 400-500k miles without any repairs.
Not to be confrontational, but is that a realistic 2021 price? I'd struggle to do oil and filters on a diesel pickup for that.
One of my big gut checks on it would be tire prices. Big or small, they age out every 5-7 years or so. Roadside assistance for a tire would suuuuuck too. I'm not readily familiar with the prices, admittedly, but that's what I'd worry about.
No confrontation implied. You can nearly always find a $30 deal on a gallon of oil and a filter. Add a second gallon of oil which leaves you some bux for a fuel filter (which really only needs to be done every few years at the mileage he'd put on it). So maybe $60? Heck, even if it's $200, he's not going to spend $1k a year maintaining the engine.
It looks like it might have 17.5" wheels? Maybe 19.5? Truck tires are a different breed. I had some 19.5s on a 26' box truck that went 22 years before I finally gave in and bought new. They're made for hitting curbs and carrying massive weight. The sidewalls are ridiculously thick. You can't really compare the lifespan in years to a passenger tire.
glueguy (Forum Supporter) said:Also gearing. A lot of airport and other transport units don't expect to travel at more than 50MPH over their lifetime, so make sure you look at the ratios and what it means.
Yup... this. If they're not road-use, they might have a 6.20:1 or worse. If their job was to go from the terminal to the parking lot they're a whole different critter than if they picked you up at the hotel a couple exits down. My guess (just a guess) is that since this was used for playoff trips and other road-ish things, plus the fact that it likely has an ISB means that it probably is road-geared.
I know I'm an optimist. So I'm trying to listen to more than just Curtis here. LOL
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
They are 22.5 Lo-pro tires. We run them and they're heavy duty truck tires. You need to be a little careful because hitting a curb can bend a wheel pretty easy. Being a low floor if it needs to be regeared it could be a project. Most of them use a reversed portal axle setup.
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
what's one cost?
P3PPY said:In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
what's one cost?
You can find 22.5 tires (maybe not low profile ones) for $300-900 per tire depending on speed and weight ratings and tread pattern. If they're like Semi truck tires, there can be differences between "drive" tires and "steer" tires.
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