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Rons
Rons HalfDork
4/13/23 12:51 p.m.

I had another thought Wilkininsons Automobilia in Vancouver https://www.eautomobilia.com/product/smtoy81cor/1981-toyota-corolla-shop-service-manual I found an 81. Wilkinsons has an EBay store and I believe if you phone them they can be quite helpful.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/13/23 1:01 p.m.

Does the 1975 Corolla use the same engine?

And here's the wagon. A bit of cutting and pasting and you'll be there.


 

Of course, the easiest way to make a car mid-engined is to take a FWD drivetrain and install it at the wrong end. Which means you're wide open for powerplants and you can choose whatever you want that will fit.

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic Dork
4/13/23 1:18 p.m.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

"I want to import it into a CAD program to look at the feasibility of making the Corolla mid-engine."

But why? 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
4/13/23 1:25 p.m.

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

They already made a mid engine Corolla, it's called the MR2 smiley

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/13/23 1:51 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Yeah, but they didn't make a wagon version. 

L5wolvesf
L5wolvesf Dork
4/13/23 2:03 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Does the 1975 Corolla use the same engine? Same series "T" engine could be in a 75.

However, the 75 is 2 generations earlier.

I imagine Curtis could use the drawing and update the dimensions.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/13/23 4:20 p.m.

In reply to L5wolvesf :

I was thinking that the 75 could provide the silhouette of the engine and the wagon drawing is the car it's going into. I don't see the value in trying to retain the original drivetrain, though, you'd be much better with a transverse setup.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/13/23 6:54 p.m.
VolvoHeretic said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

"I want to import it into a CAD program to look at the feasibility of making the Corolla mid-engine."

But why? 

It's a beautiful fairy tale.  I don't particularly WANT to make it mid engine, but preliminary measuring shows that the free engine I have has zero chance of fitting under the hood.  $200 Corolla + free Caddy 500 + sawzall and welder = challenge fun.

From the drawings that Keith posted (thank you greatly, by the way) it may not work as a mid-mount either unless I shove the seats forward a bit which doesn't suit either.

I'll throw it in Vectorworks or Sketchup and make sure, but it's not looking great.  That leads me back to K-swap.... which leads me to a different thread.  Coming soon to a forum near you:  Nutbag Curtis bites off more than he can chew with his first challenge build.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/13/23 8:36 p.m.

The obvious solution to the mid-engined Caddy 500 is an Eldorado transmission.

Or, a modern version, the LS4. Either the whole thing or an a-dapter kit to fit the 500 to the trans.

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic Dork
4/13/23 10:40 p.m.

If you are worried about turning with all of that weight hanging out back, install a turning brake lever on the rear brakes like on a sand buggy.

 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/14/23 10:27 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Yup.  Already researching TH425-SPs

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/14/23 10:44 a.m.

My bigger concern now is that I had forgotten how the TH425 centers the weight over the axle.  I might be looking at a C5 transaxle instead, which (with the proper bellhousing or an adapter) means likely more than challenge budget.... and resting my back on the alternator.

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic Dork
4/14/23 7:36 p.m.

Use the GMC motor home front hubs with the 8 lug bolt pattern and put duallys on the back to get enough rubber back there with box flares. laugh Edit: new photos for better effect.

Here is a profile of the C5 drivetrain and suspension I found on the web. The wheelbase is 104.5" for scaling. I could crop some photos of this and stich them together in autocad for you to see if it would fit in your wagon. I would have to wing it as far as that adapter goes to bolt the engine onto the transaxle. Somewhere I saw a picture of it on the web.

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic Dork
4/15/23 1:05 a.m.

How about putting the engine in the front seat and drive from the back seat? laugh

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/15/23 9:24 a.m.

Mating the T56 is the easy part.  Tremec made them modular, so all you need is the bellhousing.  The front plate and center case are the same across GMs.  I have a viper T56 that I had converted to a GM front plate and input shaft.  They're all the same guts.

I would need a Lakewood bellhousing with the BOPC pattern or a BOPC-chevy adapter if I'm using the Caddy.

Edit to add:  Somewhere I have an SBC and an LS bellhousing that I can measure the depth for photo/CAD purposes.

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic Dork
4/15/23 10:44 a.m.

To go along with the dually Eldorado front clip idea: 20x8.25" dually wheels with 245/35-20 tires. 17.4" tread width per side, should keep all of that weight in line. Wheels $1300, Tires $1750, Total $3050, kind of blows the budget though. frown

maschinenbau
maschinenbau UberDork
4/15/23 12:25 p.m.

This is gonna sound crazy, but it might be kinda cool to do a FWD full drivetrain/cradle/suspension swap. It's way easier to work with the engine bay space instead of crawling under the hatch/cargo area. The new hot swap for MR2 Spiders is the 2AR-FE 4 cylinder, which is quickly becoming known "Toyota's K20" with its ability to make 200whp NA and cheaply. It can be found in many donor cars (mostly Scions) that have manual transmissions. You could even replace the ancient live axle with a torsion beam from the same donor. It would be very lightweight.

But if you really want mid engine, the FWD 2AR-FE/6spd cut and paste from a Scion into your Corolla cargo area would be sweet. If I had to start the Lotus Europa project from scratch today, without a donor car already in my lap, that's the route I would go.

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic Dork
4/15/23 1:05 p.m.

In reply to maschinenbau :

Like this? Slap your Toyota from the firewall back onto a Toronado or Eldorado front clip.

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic Dork
4/15/23 11:19 p.m.

Sorry, but it looks like you will have to sit in the back seat after all. This diagram uses an automatic transmission, can I assume its the same length as the 6 speed manual? It probably doesn't make much difference in the big picture.

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic Dork
4/16/23 10:18 a.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/17/23 10:23 a.m.

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

Sitting on top of the carburetor doesn't leave much headroom cheeky

TH425 puts too much weight back

Porsche transaxle too expensive

C5 transaxle doesn't leave much room, even with something that replaces the T56 with a Muncie (shortest one I know of) won't leave space for a seat.  Looks like the Caddy goes in the Bonneville.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/17/23 10:33 a.m.

Seems to me that putting the weight right on the rear axle will be good for the drags, and maybe a wheelie show :)

Can you fit the Cadillac engine to a 4T65E-HD MN7 trans? That's the one used in the FWD LS4 application. It may not be a forever application - that's a lot of torks - but it might put the engine in the back seat instead of the front seat. BOP to metric GM has to be a known adaptation. I think that's the right term, LS bellhousing anyhow.

 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/17/23 12:26 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Seems to me that putting the weight right on the rear axle will be good for the drags, and maybe a wheelie show :)

And I would definitely not need power steering.

Can you fit the Cadillac engine to a 4T65E-HD MN7 trans? That's the one used in the FWD LS4 application. It may not be a forever application - that's a lot of torks - but it might put the engine in the back seat instead of the front seat. BOP to metric GM has to be a known adaptation. I think that's the right term, LS bellhousing anyhow.

 

I'll look into it.  If the block fits beside the 4T, it's worth a look.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
4/17/23 1:13 p.m.

I have a feeling that the BOP bolt pattern would be partially inside the transmission.  That is a lot of why the Metric pattern is what it is.

Although... the LS4 does have a vestigial Chevy pattern on the back, so maybe?  Does the Cad have the oil filter on the left or the right?

 

(HI everybody! In today's episode, we will see how far we can launch a 4T65 drive chain!)

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic Dork
4/17/23 2:03 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

Sitting on top of the carburetor doesn't leave much headroom cheeky

How healthy is your neck? laugh

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