e_pie
HalfDork
7/8/13 2:13 p.m.
I'm always kind of surprised no one has built a ready made differential thing for swapping motorcycle engines in to cars.
Make 2 boxes, one that has axle outputs and a diff for FWD or mid engine applications (kind of like the berkeley) and one that has a driveshaft yoke.
Though I guess that is a pretty niche market.
In reply to e_pie:
http://quaife.co.uk/shop/search/results/taxonomy%3A825
kb58
HalfDork
7/8/13 7:36 p.m.
Oooo, a parade to rain on:
-
Bike engine -> car, for track use only = awesome.
-
Bike engine -> car, for street driving, no.
-
As was said, needs a proper diff, expensive no matter how it's done.
Quaife has one for ~$3000.
-
As was said, no reverse, about $1000.
-
As was said, a dry sump is nearly a requirement (though R1s allegedly can do car service without.) About $2000.
-
Are you fine with "cruising" at 6000 rpm on the freeway? Seriously.
-
Because bikes have no flywheel, you'll often stall it.
-
Because bikes have no flywheel, when on the freeway, you'll find the drivetrain and car get in a tug-of-war with each other, with the two doing this little dance back and forth, with the driveline slope being the rope. End result, at constant speed, expect the car to be doing a subtle but constantly annoying bang/bang/bang/bang, back and forth.
If you really must do the bike engine, go with the Hayabusa. Remember, the "sportbike" formula gets changed in a big way when the engine's dropped into something weighing 3-4x as much as it was designed to propel.
I HIGHLY recommend getting a ride in one first, and make sure to drive for 15-20 minutes on the freeway, just to get an idea of what your getting yourself into.
Ian F
PowerDork
7/8/13 8:35 p.m.
As neat as this project sounds, I can't imagine going though that much work and not making it mid-engine and RWD.
While I don't have anything constructive to add, I will supply you with a link to a pretty bitchin' build (and quite Grassroots) of a Honda N600 with a VFR transplant.
N600 + VFR = More Awesomer (no boxflares)
Ian F
PowerDork
7/9/13 7:49 a.m.
EvanB wrote:
In reply to Ian F:
Because back seat.
Then keep the A-series. Or use a more economical engine choice. Even if you get the MC engine for free, it'll cost more and be far less reliable than installing a car engine.
kb58
HalfDork
7/9/13 8:15 a.m.
EvanB wrote:
In reply to Ian F:
Because back seat.
Backseat = street car, but bike engine = track car
Ian F
PowerDork
7/9/13 8:23 a.m.
kb58 wrote:
EvanB wrote:
In reply to Ian F:
Because back seat.
Backseat = street car, but bike engine = track car
But this is the GRM forum - where we like to stubbornly take the most difficult route possible to get what we don't want.
EvanB
PowerDork
7/9/13 8:29 a.m.
Exactly, what do you mean I shouldn't build a daily driver motorcycle engine car that will fit 4 people?
Many ATVs and UTV's offer neutral and reverse. Is there a way to use their gearbox to add reverse?
The Goldwing offers reverse. How do they do it?
fanfoy
HalfDork
7/9/13 9:09 a.m.
pinchvalve wrote:
Many ATVs and UTV's offer neutral and reverse. Is there a way to use their gearbox to add reverse?
The Goldwing offers reverse. How do they do it?
Since the gearbox is an integral part of a bike engine, I don't see how you could integrate a reverse.
On the Goldwing, they use the starter motor, and make it run backwards. Don't know any specific.
But honestly, I have to agree with KB58 in this. Bike engine = track car
So you shouldn't care about reverse.
And it does get expensive fast.
This is the setup I fabricated for my project. It uses a Sizuki Swift differential from an automatic transmission. I got the entire transmission for 30$. And I have access to cheap CNC machining. And yet, I have somewhere between 300$-400$ into this setup. And this is as grassroots as you can get. You have to be really sure you want a bike engine.
I came across this posting though it's old I built a old mini for a customer last year using a motorcycle motor .
a big part of my business is doing just that building and working on sports racers cars using motorcycle motors .
the mini I did I used a Goldwing motor and we mounted it mid engine and rear drive .
there were many reasons why we did it that way and not front engine front drive .
I have built more motorcycle motored powered cars then I can think of over the last 30 years of being in business . so the myth of them not holding up for street use is just not true at all . they will and do hold up !
they make reverse systems for motorcycle powered cars of you can fab one up out of a old starter motor . and yes a high torque starter motor will hold up and work fine . the only down side is the speed the cars will go in reverse .
chain drive diff's are also a ez thing to do you can buy them or again fab one your self . we tend to just fabricate them our self's .
as for being stuck with a to high of a 1st gear and burning out clutches this too is nothing more then a myth .
the problem is the size of the rotating mass of the clutch . most motorcycle clutches are about 5 to 8 inches across . so like any multi friction clutch they will be grabby so the only headache is stop and go traffic .
find a LSD diff and building the housing is very ez to do all it is a round tube that will slide over the diff with a end cap that will let you pump grease into it to keep it lubed . I tend to buy new winters diff's for our builds . they are not cheap but they are very good quality light weight and will last .
rebel gears is our go to for the rear sprockets they will custom cut the centers to your needs and at a good price that way you can just bolt it right up to the diff's .
another myth is that the chains don't last . this also is not true ! they will last as long as you keep them lubed and adjusted . but like a motorcycle they are maintenance .
the problem I found with the mini was the front axle line to were the motor side in the chassis . I did some cad design and found that just doing the motor mid ship would be worlds better then doing a front mount front drive . the biggest plus was the cars balance it was dam close to 50/50 with a driver in the car .
we built a new chassis and using a lot of a NA Miata's steering and suspension parts for the front and rear .
they are kind of light weight and there every were for cheap .
the problem with many bike motors in cars is when you spin the car . bikes don't spin if the lose the ass end on a bike your going over the high side . so in a car they can and some times will eat the trans or starter motors from doing so .
but even this is not as big of a problem as many will tell you . all the years I have been driving and racing bike powered cars I have only ruined one gear box and two starter motors .
if you look at the gains you get by doing a swap to a bike motor you will see they are not as bad at all as many are stating . just look at weight !
the bike motor and trans combo will be (most of the time ) lighter then a cars trans all by it's self .
then look at the power . a average 1.6L 4 cylinder car it will put out about 100 or so HP and many a little less in torques and most of the numbers at at the flywheel . now look at the motor cycle motors of just say 1000CC or 1.0L they put out about 160 HP and about 110 torques .
if you go to the locostusa web site you will see and find out the truth about what works and what does not along with many how to's .
Good info, though. I'd say that was worthy of a bump.
pirate
Reader
4/18/14 2:59 p.m.
You might find these two web sites helpful:
http://www.zcars.org.uk/forsale.php
http://www.superfastminis.com/index.htm
SVreX
MegaDork
4/18/14 3:42 p.m.
Thanks for resurrecting this.
I wasn't building a bike powered car back then.
Now I am.
bluej
SuperDork
4/18/14 3:51 p.m.
In reply to SVreX:
I owe you a long overdue email reply :(
962porsche touched on a fair bit of it. I'll try to find time next week. Any updates in the mean time?