Just wondering how these cars compare in terms if performance. On paper, or my phone screen, they are somewhat similar in concept and looks. Mid engined light weight rear wheel drive swoopy two seaters. I enjoyed the GRM articles and videos of their 818 build and the coupe version is more appealing to me. I'm hoping someone who has actually driven both can post their thoughts.
You can probably count the number of people who have driven both of those cars on your eyebrows. The Elise is an uncommon car but they probably outnumber 818s a thousand to one.
Other than the esteemed publisher of this magazine, you wont find many who have driven both.
My thoughts are that the Elise will feel more like a car and the 818 will feel like a kit car.In terms of raw numbers around a course, you might not have much between the two, but the Elise is going to feel a lot more composed than the 818.
The Elise has quite a lot more chassis development out of the box, so that tends to give it the nod out of the box.
The 818 with enough development should be able to get close to or faster than an Elise, but that's not a small amount of work.
Keep in mind, most 818s are built with turbocharged Subaru drivetrains and have more rubber on the road than the Elise, so it would be difficult to get a true 1:1 test without proper test preparations performed.
Wayne at VCP (Very Cool Parts) is both a builder of the 818 (he was also included in some development work with Factory Five), and he used to race Lotus Elise. I don't know if there is anybody out there who has more seat time in both of these cars.
P.S. this is also the same guy who helped GRM build their 818
I'd be curious about long-term value too. The Elise has pretty much bottomed out, but I'm not sure we'll see much of a price increase long-term? I'd think the 818 would trend similar to other Factory Five cars - meaning the value is largely correlated to the quality of the build and components used...but will they appreciate much in coming years?
petegossett wrote: I'd be curious about long-term value too. The Elise has pretty much bottomed out, but I'm not sure we'll see much of a price increase long-term? I'd think the 818 would trend similar to other Factory Five cars - meaning the value is largely correlated to the quality of the build and components used...but will they appreciate much in coming years?
I don't think appreciation is a thing that can happen to kit cars - if you want something similar you can always build one.
The Elise will only appreciate if Lotus ever loses their ongoing battle with the harsh realities of capitalism, either in body or in spirit. The last time things looked bad for them, prices on used Loti were creeping up and then shooting up until the news started to look good again, and then prices crashed back to their previous values.
It seems to me that one advantage of the 818 it seems like it would be easier to repair if damaged since it is essentially a tube frame with body panels
^Good point. The Elise is a nightmare to repair. It has 2 giant body panels over a bonded & bolted aluminum extrusion unibody.
I definitely would not expect a kit car to appreciate. An elise certainly could. Unmolested well maintained non-salvage titled ones I would think are a lock to appreciate, but eventually they will all have salvage titles, or at least it seems that way based on what I ever see for sale.
If I believe the factory five website and my local craigslist ads for WRXs, not counting labor, an 818 has a cheaper buy-in than an elise. If one paid to have it assembled or considered their time, I'm guessing an elise is cheaper to get into.
It seemed like the GRM staff liked the 818 project, but it didn't stay around very long after the stories were printed. I'm expecting that the coupe version is much more of real car since it has a roof, windows and things like that.
I spend some time on the FFR forum, and have seen several of the 818s for sale. Not only do I think they won't go up in value, they aren't really even holding their value. I've seen a couple of very nice ones for sale that probably had 30k+ in just parts go for low 20K, and I saw a straight donor build go for 15K on BAT. In the next several years as more become available for sale I think you will be able to pick one up for 10K or less. Of course don't tell those guys that, most of them think they are going to recoup their labor and parts and make some money too.
Elises have actually appreciated a bit over time. I owned one for about a year and sold it for a little more than I paid for it. Now the same car is worth about $5000 more. Until Lotus comes back with a new Elise for sale in the U.S. values will probably stay strong.
They weigh about the same, the 818 has a longer wheelbase, and assuming a turbo motor, the 818 should have more power. Out of the box the Elise is probably quicker on a road course, but the 818 should be faster once dialed in. Most of what I have to offer has already been said except for the resale question. It's really easy to go hog-wild on a kit car and never see most of that money again, but my experience is that a thoughtful, value-oriented build can be a very good automotive investment. I thrashed my Stalker V6 for three years and sold it for what I had into it. For $15K you could probably buy someone's relatively fresh 818 or if you're real lucky you could get a roached-out Elise. At that price point it's a no-brainer. OTOH if you paid twice that, the 818 would lose value pretty fast, whereas the Elise would probably already have it's highest devaluation period behind it.
T.J. wrote: It seemed like the GRM staff liked the 818 project, but it didn't stay around very long after the stories were printed. I'm expecting that the coupe version is much more of real car since it has a roof, windows and things like that.
GRM has taken kit cars in payment for advertising services in the past 
I don't know anything about the 818, though.
I saw the coupe at SEMA. It's a looker. Still very much a kit car - none of the difficult stuff like wheel liners - but a pretty well executed kit car. I'd probably take the Elise personally, not having driven either.
Also, if you care you would be more noticed in an 818, because everybody has an Elise but very few people have an 818
Everybody? I haven't seen one in person in a couple of years. But I did see two 818 coupes last week
Love my Elise, though "refined" is not an adjective I would use to describe it. I can only imagine that the 818 is much more...raw
fireball123 wrote: Also, if you care you would be more noticed in an 818, because everybody has an Elise but very few people have an 818
Maybe you're joking, but here in car-crazy Southern California I see an Elise maybe every 4 months or so, if that.
I have seen exactly zero local lotii of any type in the past three years. There was an elise on craigslist a couple years ago, bit I never saw the car in person.
Given that Lotus is known as one of the best suspension setup shops in the world - the consultancy business keeps the car business afloat - I'd go with a Lotus chassis over a kit car. Unless you want the challenge of debugging the kit, which is definitely a lot of fun.
kb58 wrote:fireball123 wrote: Also, if you care you would be more noticed in an 818, because everybody has an Elise but very few people have an 818Maybe you're joking, but here in car-crazy Southern California I see an Elise maybe every 4 months or so, if that.
personally I've never seen an 818 or an Elise but i assume their are more Elise's out their than 818's
kb58 wrote:fireball123 wrote: Also, if you care you would be more noticed in an 818, because everybody has an Elise but very few people have an 818Maybe you're joking, but here in car-crazy Southern California I see an Elise maybe every 4 months or so, if that.
Here in the bay area I see Elises fairly frequently, probably weekly or so. I don't think I've ever seen an 818 in person.
I usually pass an S2 Elise on the way to work...it's the same one but I see it regularly 
GameboyRMH wrote: I usually pass an S2 Elise on the way to work...it's the same one but I see it regularly
I see two or three with some regularity during my commute. Especially a yellow one I see in rush-hour traffic on I-95. Plus, a BRG/tan one that makes me drool every time I see it.
It helps my commute passes by an old Lotus dealer location, so that helped make them fairly common in the area. Oddly enough, I still see Elise's more often than Evora's. There was also a Tesla roadster I think was serviced at the Lotus dealer, so I would see it a few times a year.
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