Olemiss540 said:I see a few options based on that info:
RSS Clubsport
KW V2's
I would think the KW V2's would be a pretty good bolt on solution in your budget?
I'm definitely tempted. And the st suspension xta kit is exactly the same, but it's a few hundred cheaper and comes with a camber kit! :D
What tires are you planning on running with those rates?
Olemiss540 said:What tires are you planning on running with those rates?
I'll start with a cheap trackday tire. like a falken azenis.
but I want to at least play with temporarily trying out a hosier or top of the line tire like toyo r888.
Also, i have checked all the ots shelf options, and I think ceika is my only option. It's either that or deal with revalving (which is ok, but it's a pain, and I wont have any damping or height or shock length adjustability).
Here's my plan. I can get ceikas shipped to my door for 1040$. and they let you specify any springrate you want. So i'm thinking that if I specify a springrate that is a bit higher than what I need (like 900f 1200r, or something around there) then the dampers should be "tough" enough for track abuse on a more "normal" rate of like 500f 800r
For whatever it's worth- my experience with suspension components, more than anything else in a car, is buy cheap buy twice. It seems like you might want to save up a little longer and get shocks that are properly matched to your desired spring rate. I'll cheap out on all sorts of other stuff, but not suspension.
In reply to Tadope :
Does that price include the camber plates you'll inevitably want on a track suspension? Is over-spec'ing the standard 'sport' valving an attempted work around from paying extra for the 'race' valving. That sounds like a very hit-or-miss (risky) proposition to me, most likely to just end up simply being overdamped.
Unless you can get the Ceika's with double digressive pistons and rebound-only (no cross-talk) damping adjustment, I don't know that I see as much value in them as paying not much more for the YCW's.
z31maniac said:$1500 as the high end?
You can likely get a set of custom FEAL 441s for a few hundred more. That will be much better than an OTS setup.
I've got Feals on the Miata 675/450 (12k/8k), and at the low end to about the midpoint of the damping spectrum, they're well tolerable on the street, and when I crank therm up they're super fun.
They are quite confidence inspiring at speeds I should not run on a mountain road (way too easy to drive it fast), bumps don't upset the car. Not plush when cranked up for the fun run, but they perform well. Primary use is auto-x for fun stuff.
I would not leave them out of consideration. Also, compared to some BC "BR" units, the owner of that car and I both liked my set up better at the auto-x - data point as such.
Ok ill reconsider the feals or ycw.
Ycw: are ycw really that good? Ycw are not taiwan dampers?
Ceika: sounds like i should just spend the 150 for proper race valving. And NO they dont come with camber plates. But tts have oem camber adjustment built in anyways so im not too worried on that front.
That all depends on how you define 'that good'. But regardless of country of origin, there does appear to be some fundamental differences between them.
Why not just talk to Ceika about the actual difference between their 'sport' and 'race' valving to see what is driving the price difference and figure out if it might be worth it for you. You might also be just as well sticking with the standard 'sport' valving and simply having them valve for the actual spring rates you want to run.
I also didn't realize there were Audi's that can get decent camber out the factory components...Lucky you! Sad that their competition doesn't offer the same on the 'ultiamte driving machine'.
Yeah. It is probably because the tt is an audi sports car, and they had to add all sorts of goodies to the vw golf chassis it rides on.
YCW and FEAL are probably too expensive. out the door it comes out to almost $1500 ...
anyone else with any recommendations?
Ceika is still at the top of my list at 1040$
I have heard good things about this company. They revalve BC coilovers for autocross and track days.
https://store.redshiftmotorsports.com/RedShiftCompCoilovers-s/147.htm
Adding redshift to my notes.
i ended up buying $50 ebay threaded sleeve springs for my stock shocks.
ill need that as a testbed to see what not to do. Then i can order the proper spring lengths and rates the first time out.
Anyone got a link to rebuilding bilstein b8. I got a set locally for 100$ with one broken shock
x2 for Redshift Motorsports. They start out as BCs, then he takes them apart, and revalved them to your needs.
Chris worked with BC and built me the first prototype set with the bigger 46mm pistons for the rear of my Mazda2(would also fit a Fiesta).
I've had a half dozen different suspension setups under my car in the 172k it has on it. Now running 11k/10k springs on a 2400lb(including driver), and it's perfectly fine for daily driving. Note spring rates are about .97:1 front and rear. Strut front, twist beam rear.
They are heavily digressively valved and just plain work. I can hit a quick/sharp bump and it just soaks it up without upsetting the car. It took hopping all the curbs at Summit Point no problem.
For reference in the past, I've run custom fabricated coilovers housings to use Koni RACE inserts with homemade camber plates, and these things blow that setup away by a mile.
ok sounds great. but i don't have that kinda cash.
I think i'll just try to rebuild my won billies....
flatlander, what's the travel like on those? I've thought about going that route before, but don't the BCs have very limited travel (like many of the cheaper setups?)
ProDarwin said:flatlander, what's the travel like on those? I've thought about going that route before, but don't the BCs have very limited travel (like many of the cheaper setups?)
If by "travel" you mean suspension stroke before hitting the bumpstops, then I think you're on some wrong info. BC's have a second set of threads on the shock body to adjust the body length (aside from the ride height) this lets you set as much or as little travel as you want.
A lot of cheap china/taiwan coilovers do this. and so do a lot of top of the line coilovers. Unfortunately it's part of the cheap coilovers marketing strategy. It makes them seem "high end" when the most important part (the damper mechanics) are hidden away inside the pretty threaded shock bodies.
Also most euro brands do NOT have this second adjustable shock body, because it is against european laws to have that. They have to have a fixed shock length.
In reply to ProDarwin :
There are pros and cons to each (adjustable body vs solid body) style of aftermarket dampers, It's also somewhat application dependent, as there are a number of inter-related constraints at play. While the adjustable body will always have some amount less shaft travel than an equivalent length solid body, I would argue that it ultimately comes down more to the care taken in component design/selection than it does which style. Both can have the body length and/or shaft travel be entirely too long or too short for the intended spring/wheel rate and ride height.
Case in point, I was able to custom-tailor the body length and shaft stroke on my (adjustable body) YCW's to avoid the coil binding problems encountered by the (solid body) Ohlins users. This actually included going a shorter stroke damper on the rear to avoid choosing between helper springs or coil binding.
Tadope said:ProDarwin said:flatlander, what's the travel like on those? I've thought about going that route before, but don't the BCs have very limited travel (like many of the cheaper setups?)
If by "travel" you mean suspension stroke before hitting the bumpstops, then I think you're on some wrong info. BC's have a second set of threads on the shock body to adjust the body length (aside from the ride height) this lets you set as much or as little travel as you want.
That allows you to have height adjustability. The shock travel is generally related to the length of the damper. Since those threaded bodies are often shorter (sometimes significantly) compared to their fixed counterpart, they have less shock travel.
Also, its weird that I just posted in here ~30 mins ago, but the forum still shows the last post as 7 hours ago. Wonder if this will fix it.
In reply to ProDarwin :
It's a threaded coilovers so like you said it won't have the travel of a normal fixed coilover.
I don't recall off the top of my head but I believe it's around 5.5-6in of travel. Not a real issue because I'm running such high rates.
The difference is about $3000 vs a set of MCS which is the only other option that doesn't suck. I've been through several setups and knew higher rates are needed anyway so this fits the bill and gets 90% of the benefit of good valving, at a fraction of the cost.
Always pick coilovers based on the dampers, not the springrate. Coilover springs can be changed on all 4 corners for roughly $350 and you'll struggle to adjust the dampening on a single corner for that much. I'd STRONGLY look at the redshift stuff, I'm not familiar with it, but anything that is remotely comparable to motion control is going to be far superior then anything that's shipped over after a 10-15 minute phone conversation with someone who will be ordering it from someone else internationally.
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
Yes. Chris at Redshift sells MCS as well. He revalves the BC coilovers to match and they are very digressive. For reference I had regular BCs on 6k/5k before his revalved shocks on 11/10k... The 2x stiff setup is SO MUCH better riding even on crappy roads than the regular BCs ever were.
Also height adjustment at the threads is stupid. Then you end up hitting the bump stops at different times left vs right. That manufacturing method is plain and simple a cost cutting measure. Ching chong coilover brands market it as hype. You will never find that type of design as standard on any kind of serious professional motorsport series.
What you should have is proper travel, be able to have sufficient uptravel(typically 3Gs of your corner weights is a good starting point), and have enough downtravel that IF your spring is loose at full extension, you have a light 50-100lb helper or tender(whatever you want to call it) if deemed necessary. Primarily on the drive wheels. Overall weight and spring rate and where you race it will determine your needs.
I adjust the shock body with no spring on it to compress the bumps as high up into the wheel well as interference allows. Then using the lower spring seat I set ride height to be 3x corner weight higher. So 700lb corner weight, 600lb spring means 2100lbs of force would compress a 600lb spring by 3.5in. then all remaining is downtravel. With 6in of travel up front(IIRC), That leaves 2.5in downtravel. A 600lb spring at ride height only needs about 1-1/8in downtravel, so IDEALLY I'd throw in a ~100lb helper spring to use all the remaining 1-3/8in travel, but the spring seats are too close to each other, and I cannot lower the lower seat more without tire interference, and using a shorter spring will result in spring bind before 3.5in compression, so I do without the helpers.
Here is a good video on how to set "fully threaded" coilovers. Along with busting several other myths.
I would call Lee over at Koni. Be prepared to answer a lot of questions. I have put Koni on many different track cars and never been disappointed. They have always worked well on my various Porsche's so I am sure they can set you up with somthing.
Tadope said:Yeah. It is probably because the tt is an audi sports car, and they had to add all sorts of goodies to the vw golf chassis it rides on.
I think I know enough about the mk1 TT to comment. I'm pretty sure the extra camber comes from the ball joints, they're slotted in a way that allows you to pull the bottom out for a little extra camber. It may get you enough camber, but I wouldn't rule out camber plates.
I have an aftermarket set on my GTI to get a bit of extra camber (~.5) and I love them, but when you push them out all the way you're moving the whole wheel and tire, so at certain loads and steering angles I now get a bit of rubbing on the fender liner. So you may find that getting your camber that way restricts your tire width to a small degree. I'm not competing so I'm happy with 225 width tires, so I'm good.
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