making a fiberglass mold from an existing car (possible challenge, but probably not)

scored a free model a frame and lincoln flathead v12 today. just have to do some chainsaw work to retrieve. 

ive long dreamed of a traditional style rod built from a 29 a sedan, or a 31 truck. i have access to both, though the truck is about 1/2 rusted away. the sedan is a complete, restored car.

oviously there will be a bunch of body mods to whatever i do. like channeling and top chopping. but i want the shape right to start with. 

i have no interest in learning to english wheel. 

i have no intent to retain exact dimensional accuracy. 

i HAVE to get the look right. 

im broke. 

i have the willingness to buy 55 gallon drums of fiberglass resin and a spray gun if i need to. but id rather not if i can help it. 

in this thread, id like to focus on using the complete sedan as a mold. i cant damage the car, or modify it in any way as it isnt mine, and its MINT. 

is there a way to make a mold from it? or would i essentially be making a wireframe and fiberglass wrapping it?

how do i approach this?

I would not pull molds from a mint condition car. It's too easy to mess it up. 

My first effort with making molds off a car was the Mumpkin in 2015. It took 20X as long as I ever would have imagined, used 4X as much resin as I could have conceived, made 100X the mess I expected, and the finished product was 10% of the quality I had  hoped for. 

But Im glad I did it. 

I'm also glad I took the molds off a parts car. The car was a mess when I was done. 

This thread means nothing without pictures

In reply to loosecannon :

as soon as the rain stops and i can get over there with my chainsaw. but envision a rusty model a frame with a pair of 12 inch diameter tree trunks grown up inside the perimiter of the frame, but not touching the frame. and a siezed flathead v12 sitting on a dirt floor in a dilapidated old barn. 

my payment is helping reclaim the 5/4 old growth oak that the barn is made of. to be used in a kitchen table and bedroom set. that i get to build. which will be fun. i miss making furniture. 

id really much rather do the truck to be honest, and i wouldnt have to worry about messing it up, as we dug the cab (literally, with a shovel) out of the woods behind the barn. only 2/3 of the rear cab wall exist, most of the doors, and the cowl. its a whole lot of holes held together by very little rust where the metal still exists at all. id have to recreate part of the back cab wall from scratch. which increases the scope of the project dramatically, but may actually make it easier. 

Dusterbd13 said:

im broke. 

If so, can you afford to build a fiberglass car?

In reply to stuart in mn :

i could actually go buy a fiberglass body and have it paid for in cash. however, i choose to leave that in the safe in case of "oh E36 M3". 

so, ive set an arbitrary budget of $2019 for a complete roller. hence the broke and challenge parts. 

Sounds like you're building a pickup. 

Rebuild what's there with chickenwire and spackling, and don't worry too much about effing it up. Can't be much harder than AMC flares,

My gut feeling is the the body isn't really the problem right now. It's a problem, but not the problem. Show me a running motor sitting in a frame with axles that have brakes and then I'll agree that you need a body. 

And I'm not trying to be a dick, and planning is good, but I feel like you're getting way way way ahead of yourself here. Get the frame home. Mount the engine so that the frame is essentially a test stand. Get the motor running. In the mean time stare at the body you have (not in a mirror) every day until you're inspired. The answer will find you. 

https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/d/ford-rat-rod-project/6562831662.html

Even comes with a c4 chassis.  All for $1200

mazdeuce - Seth said:

My gut feeling is the the body isn't really the problem right now. It's a problem, but not the problem. Show me a running motor sitting in a frame with axles that have brakes and then I'll agree that you need a body. 

And I'm not trying to be a dick, and planning is good, but I feel like you're getting way way way ahead of yourself here. Get the frame home. Mount the engine so that the frame is essentially a test stand. Get the motor running. In the mean time stare at the body you have (not in a mirror) every day until you're inspired. The answer will find you. 

Very much this. 

Seth: you are probably absolutely right. And very much more logical than me.

My only concern wuth that plan is proportions. Im unsure of just where everything will need to go as far as chassis. The v12(if it can be saved) is a lot bigger than anything a model a came with. But i bet theres dimensional drawings that can help me figure that out ahead of time.

Just a reminder that the old song Hot Rod Lincoln is a true story, the car exists, and the original lyrics were "...got twelve cylinders and uses them all..." with the "...Model A body makes it look like a pup...".  So it can be done, and there are photos out on the interweb.  A little inspiration.

In reply to Dusterbd13 :it can be done easily and cheaply on any car.  

Let’s make a pretend mold. Something difficult. 

Let’s make a mold of a football

I wrote out the steps and for some reason they’ve ball been deleted. 

Ask and I’ll repeat the process.   Bottom line? A whole car should take about a week to make a splash pattern  from an existing car and a couple days  to make the parts.  

When Mark Smith (previously of FFR) started on the VW MkIV Jetta "Ute" kit some years ago, he documented the mold making process (on FB, I think). While obviously not a beginner, he did make it seem like it wasn't rocket-science. Long and tedious, though, and that is a fairly simple design.

A. I know a little about the V 12,  If It's NOT running Now you have a Steep Hill In front of you. But there is a Man and his Son(son is my age) that can re build them as far as Casting Babbet Main bearings on the west side of Atl. Airport. Suprisingly affordable.

B. SPEEDWAY  for Glass body. Believe this:  If the Body isn't Nice It doesn't matter How much you do with the rest.!

SVreX said:

I would not pull molds from a mint condition car. It's too easy to mess it up. 

My first effort with making molds off a car was the Mumpkin in 2015. It took 20X as long as I ever would have imagined, used 4X as much resin as I could have conceived, made 100X the mess I expected, and the finished product was 10% of the quality I had  hoped for. 

But Im glad I did it. 

I'm also glad I took the molds off a parts car. The car was a mess when I was done. 

Then you did it wrong.  Sorry but the car ( pattern) should be in better shape than when you started. 

Did you?

Start with a smooth body? Give it 4 thick coats of wax? Use a PVA ( poly Vinyl Alcohol)  release agent?  Eliminate reverse drafts by making flanges or split joints?   Use the Gelcoat as your first layer? Precut all your fiberglass and set it out so you could pick it up with resin coated gloves?  Did you squigee the excess resin off.  And as soon as the resin started to “kick off” ( harden) or get leathery did you use a utility knife with a fresh blade to trim around the pattern or mold?  

Edit: I’m sorry you were offended. I didn’t intend that. Trying for brevity and I guess I come across as brusk.  Please accept my apology  

As someone building a 31 pickup, let me tell you any body mods like channeling or chopping will drastically reduce your leg room. There's a reason all the rat rod builders like the sedans and 5-window cars, or extend their pickup cabs. The Rice Rod is comically small inside.

I wouldn't worry about engine length. The 2JZ is probably just as long, and certainly taller, but it fits decently. Longer than the original hood, yes, but it's a hot rod it doesn't need a hood.

1/2 rusted away? I'd like to see pictures too. Mine was pretty bad too, and I don't have anything more sophisticated than a small brake and a bead roller but it feels like enough to make patches. 

pimpm3 said:

https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/d/ford-rat-rod-project/6562831662.html

Even comes with a c4 chassis.  All for $1200

 

Holy jeeze that is a steal.  

For making fiberglass out of questionable steel or I'd be tempted to replace enough of the wood frame to get it square and then have it vacuum sealed into plastic at a boat shop. Same thing for the restored car, seal it up and build your mold on top.

In reply to Patrick :

no E36 M3.  i need that C4.   i mean, a friend needs that C4.

In reply to AngryCorvair :

Ill go halfsies with you. You get c4, i get body. We convince stampie to pick up and holf dor a minute until i can get down there....

In reply to GTXVette :

I did not know that about the v12. 

Are they desirable in any way? My dream is actually a 331 hemi, but i ASSUMED the v12 would be far cheaper and easier.

I could definitely buy a glass body. However, if i did that it would be a track t on a locost chassis.

Seth pretty much nailed it. Best way to find out what is at the end of any road is to start walking and deal with bridges or the lack thereof as you go.

I personally would embrace the e-wheel opportunity. You learn a LOT about how metal behaves as you flatten your distal digits into platypus paws.

The suggestion to slather paper-mache, bondo and whatever it takes to create/sculpt a mold from the rust/lace truck body is also a good idea.

If you locate the frame, rusty body and engine in your shop, you will have enough work to do to keep busy. In this game, ideas and opportunity come with time and contacts.

So, go get the frame, engine and truck body. Post pics and start making the plan.

Pete

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

V12 is desirable if you are restoring a Continental or Zephyr, but otherwise not so much. Veeeerrry heavy and not much power. There are some rebuild parts out there, and even some aftermarket performance parts, although not many. IF you have never worked on a Ford flathead, be warned that there are some special toos that are required for them, for doing things like pulling the valves out of the block and such. And they also require some weird socket sizes as well, like 21/32 and 25/32

frenchyd said:

SVreX said:

I would not pull molds from a mint condition car. It's too easy to mess it up. 

My first effort with making molds off a car was the Mumpkin in 2015. It took 20X as long as I ever would have imagined, used 4X as much resin as I could have conceived, made 100X the mess I expected, and the finished product was 10% of the quality I had  hoped for. 

But Im glad I did it. 

I'm also glad I took the molds off a parts car. The car was a mess when I was done. 

Then you did it wrong.  Sorry but the car ( pattern) should be in better shape than when you started. 

Did you?

Start with a smooth body? Give it 4 thick coats of wax? Use a PVA ( poly Vinyl Alcohol)  release agent?  Eliminate reverse drafts by making flanges or split joints?   Use the Gelcoat as your first layer? Precut all your fiberglass and set it out so you could pick it up with resin coated gloves?  Did you squigee the excess resin off.  And as soon as the resin started to “kick off” ( harden) or get leathery did you use a utility knife with a fresh blade to trim around the pattern or mold?  

No E36 M3. 

Of course I did it wrong. Did you notice the fact that it was a first time effort (just like Duster)??

Honestly, the condescending attitude makes me not care too much how knowledgeable you are.