Making a Harley Starter Motor Reverseable

Trying to shove that Road King of mine backwards is an awful experience. Reverse gear kits are $1k and up, so they aren't likely to happen (though if I ever get stuck and have to call a wrecker to pull me backwards....).

While rumenating a solution, the notion of using the existing starter motor, but having it spin backwards while engaged came to mind. Yes, the engine would have to be off, and yes it would be spinning that backwards as well, and yes I probably couldn't go to long backwards.

But, I did find various articles on rewiring the starter (accidentally or on purpose) and having it spin backwards. There is no bendix issue, that's controlled by a separate solenoid.

So it would seem that if I were to modify the starter motor housing to run the brush leads external, and route them to a big heavy switch, I could set it up to spin either way. Might also be able to play a game with some sort of slotting for the brush holder that you'd mechanically rotate.

The only things I can see being an issue with spinning backwards (other than making sure the engine is off) is that the drive train chain is pulled backwards, and that load is now on the tensioner. The engine being spun backwards could also perhaps cause some problems with the oil pump (dry sump design).

Can you folk come up with any reason that this couldn't work or is otherwise nuts?

I have no suggestions other than take a look at a GoldWing. How do they do it.

Add up the time and money involved for this and weigh it against how often you need it.

This looks like a modified starter reverse drive on a suzuki

More info: http://www.3wheels.org/odds-and-ends-to-make-riding-possible/reverse-gear/

I don't think it's a good idea, FT, for the reasons you stated, including spinning the motor backwards. That's a TC motor, right? You'll also be putting strain on the cam chain/tensioner in places it is not designed to be strained, and the cam chain/tensioner in those bikes is a known weak point.

Better to just keep an eye on where you park and get the OL to push you back by pushing on the forks if you need it.

Friction drive rolling the rear tire backwards is a possibility. A bit more fabrication, maybe, and I'm not sure about the room to fit it. If I ever happen to stumble across one at a swap meet for cheap, I'll pick it up just to play with if nothing else.

In reply to foxtrapper:

it sounds like you need a smaller bike

i wouldnt try it as mentioned you are putting strain on parts that should not have strain on them. as i have gotten older and fatter even pushing my "fatboy" backwards has become a chore. i really watch how i park it anymore......its amazing how when we get older its not so much about going fast but more about how to make it so we dont wake up with aching backs and legs

Grtechguy wrote: This looks like a modified starter reverse drive on a suzuki

^I was just gonna suggest something like this because turning the engine backwards sounds sketchy as all hell.

Twin cam engine, yes.

Probably going to go ahead and pick up a pivot dolly from HF to spin it around in the shed. Backing it out for a ride is half the battle. I've also gotten caught short already doing a turn around in a two lane driveway. Trying to pull that bike backwards over the ridges almost defeated me.

It's big, it's heavy, and I'm short. But even off the bike, it's big and heavy. Leaning back hard against the saddlebag guard, it's darn hard to move that bike backwards in the grass or up the slightest grade.

I don't want to spend the money, but Baker makes a nice electronically controlled reverse. Costs about $2k and the controls for it are up on the handlebars. There are other reverse kits, some down as low as $1k.

Hadn't even considered this stuff a few months ago, but the more I ride the bike, the more I can see I could get myself into some serious stuck trouble where I simply wouldn't be able to get the bike out by myself.

I'd been moving my Iron Horse around a bit this winter as I tried to find room and realized I hate a big heavy bike. They just aren't any fun and are more trouble than they are worth.

carguy123 wrote: I'd been moving my Iron Horse around a bit this winter as I tried to find room and realized I hate a big heavy bike. They just aren't any fun and are more trouble than they are worth.

Absolutely agree. I've always been of the opinion that if a bike is too heavy for me to pick up off the ground in a panic situation, it's just too big...I'm 6'3" and have never had anything bigger than an old Kawi ZX750; and I thought THAT was on the heavy side!

SlickDizzy wrote: Absolutely agree. I've always been of the opinion that if a bike is too heavy for me to pick up off the ground in a panic situation, it's just too big..

handlebar full left lock, pull backwards and up. very low effort.

Grtechguy wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote: Absolutely agree. I've always been of the opinion that if a bike is too heavy for me to pick up off the ground in a panic situation, it's just too big..

handlebar full left lock, pull backwards and up. very low effort.

This works great! I was picking up my dad's XL500 at age 12 with this trick.

BMWs have used the starter run backwards for reverse at least since the first generation of K1200LT. I never had to dig into one, so I'm not sure how they go about it, though.

A reverse doesn't help picking the bike up.

And for the record, a big touring Harley is one of the easiest bikes to pick up when it falls over.

An old trick which you are probably aware of but I'll mention anyway is to load down the front suspension, then pull back all at once. The extra push from the front springs will give you a little bit more.

The real trick is just not parking in a spot and an orientation that will require you to back up. If there's a slight downward slope, then back into the spot. And there's no shame in asking for a friendly push. These things weigh upwards of 800 lbs.

I've been riding big twin HD's since I weighed 126 lbs.

Looks like a lot of work to put a reverse gear in the transmission, might be worth the price if it saves your back. Hell I tried pushing my Moms 1200 sporty ~550lbs and thought I was going to have a heart attack. My Blast feels like a bicycle after pushing a harley.

Baker looks like a cool company, too bad they are pretty expensive. When the transmission in the blast took a crap I looked into getting a baker transmission but ended up buying a used one instead. Wonder what Bakers 6 speed conversion is like for the big bikes.

Ah, if only the world were paved and flat.

I had forgotten about the loading the front suspension to help propell the bike backwards. Thanks for the reminder.

I do try to watch where and how I park. Really, it's not much different than dealing with other bikes while pulling a trailer. You're generally not going backwards with a trailer behind anything.

But life is intruding a lot it seems recently. I've found myself several times with my eyeballs bulging trying to make that thing go backwards because I've gotten myself into another fine mess. Be it the back yard, or that time in a friends two track driveway.

I've read some interesting stories about standing in front of the bike while balancing it upright, and shoving backwards on the forks. I don't think I actually believe it, and ain't gonna try it myself.

foxtrapper wrote: The only things I can see being an issue with spinning backwards (other than making sure the engine is off) is that the drive train chain is pulled backwards, and that load is now on the tensioner. The engine being spun backwards could also perhaps cause some problems with the oil pump (dry sump design).

Can't you just put the transmission in Neutral? It will put load on the tensioner and other bits that may not be happiest with it, but seems like it would save your engine components.

Beer Baron wrote: Can't you just put the transmission in Neutral? It will put load on the tensioner and other bits that may not be happiest with it, but seems like it would save your engine components.

Harley has a chain joining my engine to the transmission, and a belt joining my transmission to the rear tire. The sprocket on the transmission that the chain drives, that's also my clutch and what my starter motor engages. So having the transmission in neutral won't help me go backwards on the starter motor.

I was just thinking that any bike could have this if the starter were geared onto the input side of the transmission instead. Then you could just put it in 1st, hold the clutch lever and hit the "reverse" button (which could be wired to only work with the clutch disengaged). You wouldn't even have to shut down the engine.

The gearbox would have to be in neutral for electric starting though, nothing another switch can't take care of.

If I recall, some of the BEC Locost guys address the issue with some type of geared rear brake disk. Or there is some type of solution like that. A small motor sitting on the swingarm with lots of gearing running a bendix out to a geared rear brake disk? Or maybe just a rubber wheel riding on the outer edge of the brake disk. Maybe hang it under the swingarm? Might have to have some kind of 90 degree power transmission thingie. I dunno. If it doesn't exist, it might sell.

Note that you could buy a 4 speed with a reverse. It was actually a 3 forward speed and 1 reverse. For the old Servicarts. I doubt any have been made since maybe the 70's.