maybe this bugs me more than it should...

I have never understood why NASCAR didn't can their silly wheelbase rules and just run Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers with stock bodies-in-white.

jstein77 wrote: I have never understood why NASCAR didn't can their silly wheelbase rules and just run Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers with stock bodies-in-white.

NASCAR does have a race series for that... they run some sort of a 24 hour long race at Daytona every winter...

racerfink wrote:

fiesta54 wrote: I just learned about the "competition yellow." At least they stopped making up reasons for yellows and just call it what it is

Obviously, you don't understand what a 'competition yellow' is for...

it's there to squeeze in an extra guaranteed commercial break..

novaderrik wrote: up until a few years ago, most teams used cheap and simple mechanical gauges to keep track of their engines, and it worked just fine.

Have you priced what a set of "cheap and simple" mechanical gauges will cost? Even the low-end stuff can end up costing a bundle, and if you get the lightweight racing-grade gauges, you can spend a lot more than a digital dash.

Plus, they probably had the engines studded with all manner of sensors for datalogging, if not in racing than for sure in testing...

The first few years of SCCA Showroom Stock were a throwback to the early days of NASCAR. Wide, wild variations in handling, horsepower, aero, brakes, etc. I remember at the Runoffs at Road Atlanta Pintos which handled, Vegas which stopped, and Gremlins which had horsepower trading the lead 3 times a lap. Also the emergence of bump drafting. Then wild cheating, DQs, Factory favorites, etc. Yeah, the history of NASCAR in about 5 years.

I'm more bothered that someone can miss 11 races and win a championship. I'm a Kyle Busch fan but he didn't deserve to win.

In reply to Wall-e:

So much of this. Kyle Busch is in my top three but there will always be an asterisk next to his 2015 Championship.

Also, The Trans-am 2 is my favorite road course series due to the Nascar Late Model technology used.

Wall-e wrote: I'm more bothered that someone can miss 11 races and win a championship. I'm a Kyle Busch fan but he didn't deserve to win.

yeah, the rule was that you had to race in every race, no excuses no exceptions... then he hit the wall at Daytona, and NASCAR made an exception for him because they said it was their fault for not putting SAFER barrier on a part of the wall that almost never gets hit and that they would make exceptions for any medical reason..

i think a few guys weren't chase eligible in the past because of that in previous years: I'm thinking Tony Stewart in '13 because of his broken leg from the sprint car accident, and Denny Hamlin a few years back is the other name that sticks in my head for some reason. both of those were medical reasons, altho not from accidents in NASCAR events..

but suddenly one of the top guys with some of the top sponsors on one of the top teams driving for a manufacturer that had never won a championship before gets hurt and suddenly the marketing guys saw some drama that they could hype up. honestly, of the 4 guys that were in it this year, i wanted Truex to win just because he did better with Childress stuff than Childress did and they are changing to Toyota with help from JGR next year because they are going to get better support from them.. i'm a Chevy guy thru and thru- and Dale Sr put RCR on the map- and try not to get sucked into the artificial hype machine, but i kinda wanted Furniture Row Racing to win as a big middle finger to them..

i was just looking around teh internets for more info on these stupid dash displays that annoy me so much, and i found this page that does a pretty good job of explaining some of the things that i like so much about NASCAR compared to other racing series and why the recent influx of technology for the sake of technology bothers me so much:

http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/04/joy-of-machine-nascar-where-rubbins-racin/

the caption under this image pretty much sums it up:

Only the absolute necessities are kept inside, even the few dials that are there almost seem irrelevant. There’s something undeniably beautiful about the simplicity of a raw machine where a driver with huge balls is the most important component.

The main reason NASCAR didn't have "technology" in the past was not for any kind of ethos, it was to prevent cheating.

That is when the teams spend many-zero sums to hack traction control into the cars by using things like hiding the electronics here and there and using conductive tape instead of wires. (And yes this was back in the days of carburetors... you know, those carbs they'd spend six figures per year for guys to tweak so they had the best fuel distribution)

The fact is, the biggest reasons manufacturers participate in motorsports is to develop technology for street cars, and to sell cars by association.

Since there is no longer any direct link between what races in a NASCAR race and what is actually sold in showrooms, I don't know if the old "win Sunday, sell Monday" ethos applies anymore. I doubt Camry/Fusion/SS buyers are basing their purchase decisions on what happens in NASCAR. So, if NASCAR wants to keep manufacturers involved, they need to evolve technologically so that some of what is learned can at least be applied to their street vehicles. You may not be happy about the new tech, but without changes that can be used in the real world, the series dies.

NASCAR is going to need to start putting digital fans into the seats.

http://www.speedwaymedia.com/?p=69766

Humm demographic has less disposable income and prices keep going up. I can't imagine why there are no butts in the seats.

Stop charging for parking. I am paying $55+ for a seat, my car isn't even watching the race yet it gets charged $10. Stop charging me $10 for a 16 oz beer. The damn race gas is cheaper. I don't know what kind of "food" that is, but it ain't nachos and it ain't worth $7, 10 chips and what looks like my kids snot with orange food coloring in it. berkeley you.

Dear track owners. Have a NASCAR track and want to make more money, how about you actually let clubs get your track at a reasonable price and have people come to the track? Novel concept I know, but some of these guys are just ridiculous.

There is zero reason for me to attend at Nascar race. I have done it before and honestly I can get drunk at home, avoid the sunburn and shiny happy people and scream at my big screen in the surround sound much cheaper, easier and more comfortable.

Hell the last time I went I could have bought my last big screen for the same money.

the last race I went to (other than a local track) that I felt I got my monies worth was Barber to see Danica lose again, blame her team and go to Nascar. It was an Indy, Sports Car double weekend and it was awesome. /rant off/

Clone Dale Earnhart sr. Because when he was racing the seats were filled, sponsors were happy, and the racing was good.

frenchyd wrote: Clone Dale Earnhart sr. Because when he was racing the seats were filled, sponsors were happy, and the wrecking was good.

FTFY. Remember when Nascar didn't penalize Earnhardt and he won the race after they didn't put the lugs on the car and wheels came off in the grass and he had his crew come out and put new wheels and tires on (which is illegal) and they let him start at the back of the pack on the same lap?

I do.

Nascar had the same BS political "which drivers do the fans like the most we penalize them least" mentality back then as they do now. They just keep moving the post so much now. They need to let them race. They wanna knock the crap out of each other let them do it. Just don't penalize a guy for retaliation. Little more hands off. That would at least get their viewership up.

Oh yeah, and just one race a year, take the restrictor plates off on a super speedway.

STM317 wrote: The fact is, the biggest reasons manufacturers participate in motorsports is to develop technology for street cars, and to sell cars by association. Since there is no longer any direct link between what races in a NASCAR race and what is actually sold in showrooms, I don't know if the old "win Sunday, sell Monday" ethos applies anymore. I doubt Camry/Fusion/SS buyers are basing their purchase decisions on what happens in NASCAR. So, if NASCAR wants to keep manufacturers involved, they need to evolve technologically so that some of what is learned can at least be applied to their street vehicles. You may not be happy about the new tech, but without changes that can be used in the real world, the series dies.

I'm not sure that had ever really applied. The reason is the same today as it was in years past, advertising. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday is just marketing.

STM317 wrote: The fact is, the biggest reasons manufacturers participate in motorsports is to develop technology for street cars, and to sell cars by association. Since there is no longer any direct link between what races in a NASCAR race and what is actually sold in showrooms, I don't know if the old "win Sunday, sell Monday" ethos applies anymore. I doubt Camry/Fusion/SS buyers are basing their purchase decisions on what happens in NASCAR. So, if NASCAR wants to keep manufacturers involved, they need to evolve technologically so that some of what is learned can at least be applied to their street vehicles. You may not be happy about the new tech, but without changes that can be used in the real world, the series dies.

actually, the oems gain a lot from NASCAR and other top racing series... they might not get a direct technology transfer from the cars, but they send their engineers thru their NASCAR programs to get them some hands on experience making stuff that works so they can transfer that knowledge to designing the cars and trucks that they sell to the public. all those guys you see going up and down pit road and in the garage area plugging laptops into the cars before and after the race are usually oem software nerds..

they also sell a few vehicles because of it, and people will actually spend good money to buy licensed shirts, hats, and bumper stickers with their logos on them and do their advertising for them..

novaderrik wrote:

STM317 wrote: The fact is, the biggest reasons manufacturers participate in motorsports is to develop technology for street cars, and to sell cars by association. Since there is no longer any direct link between what races in a NASCAR race and what is actually sold in showrooms, I don't know if the old "win Sunday, sell Monday" ethos applies anymore. I doubt Camry/Fusion/SS buyers are basing their purchase decisions on what happens in NASCAR. So, if NASCAR wants to keep manufacturers involved, they need to evolve technologically so that some of what is learned can at least be applied to their street vehicles. You may not be happy about the new tech, but without changes that can be used in the real world, the series dies.

actually, the oems gain a lot from NASCAR and other top racing series... they might not get a direct technology transfer from the cars, but they send their engineers thru their NASCAR programs to get them some hands on experience making stuff that works so they can transfer that knowledge to designing the cars and trucks that they sell to the public. all those guys you see going up and down pit road and in the garage area plugging laptops into the cars before and after the race are usually oem software nerds.. they also sell a few vehicles because of it, and people will actually spend good money to buy licensed shirts, hats, and bumper stickers with their logos on them and do their advertising for them..

I agree that tech developed in other racing series can greatly affect road cars, but NASCAR isn't really relevant to streetcars at this point. Those NASCAR engineers could just as easily get the exact same experience sitting with an engine on a dyno for WAY less money from the company. Perhaps the dyno method would even be more beneficial since Ford doesn't even sell a vehicle with a pushrod V8. At least if the powertrains were production based, there would be some carryover. They do get their logo on some merch, but I doubt that it's enough to justify the expenses of developing bespoke engines.

like i said, no real direct tech carry over, but i've seen people from the oems on tv talking about how their involvement the world of NASCAR- and Indycar, F1, etc.- all benefit the companies by getting their young engineers real world experience figuring things out in a high pressure environment. they might also learn about new materials and production techniques that can be applied to production vehicles down the road.

knowing all that, and understanding it, i still dislike that the most low tech high tech race cars on the planet are pushing more towards the high tech end of the spectrum lately. it just helps push the small guys out of the actual racing, with everyone on the track either being a part of one of 5 different teams or being affiliated with one of them.. the last true privateer single team race effort to even come close to accomplishing anything noteworthy in the Cup series beyond being field filler and a rolling road block for lead lap cars was Robby Gordon's team that quit racing about 5 years ago.