Mazda MX6, Subaru Impreza, 3 series BMW, cons & pros

I have narrowed down the search for my new vehicle to either of the following,

1999 or newer Subaru Impreza AWD 5 speed manual with the phase 2 EJ22 engine (coupe or sedan only) or 1997 Mazda MX6 5 speed powered by a DOHC KLDE V6 or 1988 BMW 325 M20 V6 5 speed (coupe model only)

I will do some auto-x and track events so any advise is greatly appreciated. I will also use the car for some commuting on the weekends, mostly to haul the wife and kid. Has anyone owned and tracked any of these vehicles? How do they handle compared to each other?

Just a quick note, the BMW is a straight six, not a vee.

I can't comment on the Mazda, but I'd say the BMW would be a nicer commuter than the Subie, and also more fun, (probably until you start adding boost to the Subaru, anyway.) I wouldn't want the MX6 simply because it's FWD, and unless you particularly wanted an AWD car for whatever reason, I'd go for the RWD BMW. I think the fact there's a spec racing series based around the E30 chassis Bimmer, is proof enough that it's a competent track car.

I don't know if this extends to the very similar MX, but when Sport Compact Car tried to do some suspension upgrades to the Probe they discovered that some parts did not fit on cars....even within a particular generation. What I mean is, that a part for a '94 Probe, would not always fit a '97 Probe. They also discovered the same problem on things like headers. I guess, IF, IF, true of a MX6, that would be a con.

Not that it really matters, from what you have said, but I believe Subaru discontinued the Impreza 2 door/coupe by 1999. I'd probably go with an Impreza, over the other 2 cars, if I lived somewhere where it snows or rains frequently.

Otherwise, the 3 series would have the nod for best aftermarket support, and at least to my "eyes", it seems like there are more 3 series on the roads than there are the other 2 cars. I do see MX6s in my area, on Craigs, but usually all beat to heck/in need of a rebuilt transmission.

I've owned 2 of your 3 choices, the Impreza (non-turbo) and BMW E30. The BMW is by far one of the best cars I've owned/tracked. With the usual bolt-on suspension upgrade it is a very easy car to drive at the limit, gobs of fun, surprisingly reliable and the parts are nowhere as bad as you'd expect. Downside: they are old, so will require some fixes for neglected maintenance most of the time.

The Impreza is one of the few cars from Asia that has personality. They handle well, are near bulletproof (head gasket issues aside), look decent and are easy to work on. They aren't great on gas, but then neither are the other two choices. AWD is a very different thing to learn to drive well at the limit. Aftermarket support is good but not great, particularly in the engine bay if you desire more power. What you can buy will not be inexpensive. Both the BMW and this car are easy 200,000 mile cars before rebuilds if maintained decently.

Have not owned a Mazda MX-6, Probe or V6 Mazda but I can offer up a few things as I have considered these cars in the past. For one, they are heavy. The V6 will be thirsty. Aftermarket is limited. Parts are expensive, especially if you hit something. Probes, forget about them completely as parts availability is becoming a real problem. A very small fan base means resale is limited. And if the Millenia I worked on is any indication, the Mazda will be the least friendly to wrench on.

You've really picked 3 distinctly different cars to choose from. I'd suggest you drive each and see which one speaks to you.

If your primary focus is performance driving including autocross and track events, the MX6 is not even in the same ballpark as the other two cars. Pick an MX5 though, and now we're talking!

ddavidv wrote: Have not owned a Mazda MX-6, Probe or V6 Mazda but I can offer up a few things as I have considered these cars in the past. For one, they are heavy. The V6 will be thirsty. Aftermarket is limited. Parts are expensive, especially if you hit something. Probes, forget about them completely as parts availability is becoming a real problem. A very small fan base means resale is limited. And if the Millenia I worked on is any indication, the Mazda will be the least friendly to wrench on. You've really picked 3 distinctly different cars to choose from. I'd suggest you drive each and see which one speaks to you.

The MX6 is actually probably the lightest out of the three he mentioned. It's not a heavy car by any means. It's not that thirsty, either. It SHOULD get better mileage than the BMW, and probably be in line with the Scooby. Easy mid-high 20s mixed driving.

They aren't hard to wrench on for most things. Timing belt/chain whatever isn't a treat, and i don't think the water pump is real fun, either, but they really aren't bad.

I can't comment on the aftermarket stuff not fitting, but i haven't seen anyone on mx6.com have a problem. And there IS aftermarket for these cars. Probably not on the leve of the other two, but it sounds like it'll be doing more commuting.

In terms of track work, it probably won't be on the same level of enjoyment as the BMW, i'd put it about equal with the scooby. It'll probably be the fastest around a track out of the three, just not as fun, because it's FWD.

That all said, if i were presented with the same choice, i'd probably pick the BMW. But really, none of those are the WRONG choice, and the MX6 SHOULD get a fair shake.

The supply of e36 BMWs is more plentiful than than e30s, at least where I live. I'd also offer that the car, while physically larger is significantly more evolved in many areas, and aftermarket support is better than for the earlier car.

Just sayin'...

But really, none of those are the WRONG choice, and the MX6 SHOULD get a fair shake.

I agree.

And really, for every 100 people that say FWD is horrible, there are 97 people that are doing it wrong.

The mx6 is a fun to drive car. They did well in stock classes back in their day and while the aftermarket is tiny compared to the other two, there is definitely enough there to make a fun street/autox daily driver type car.

Also, it will be faster in a straight line than the other two by a bit (a goot bit vs subaru), except off the launch of course

For track usage, I'd take the RWD car. The BMW is great on track and fun DD if it can be kept reliable on your budget. Its hard to find a decent condition E30 these days. There are many more E36s out there.

Vigo wrote:

But really, none of those are the WRONG choice, and the MX6 SHOULD get a fair shake.

I agree. And really, for every 100 people that say FWD is horrible, there are 97 people that are doing it wrong. The mx6 is a fun to drive car. They did well in stock classes back in their day and while the aftermarket is tiny compared to the other two, there is definitely enough there to make a fun street/autox daily driver type car. Also, it will be faster in a straight line than the other two by a bit (a goot bit vs subaru), except off the launch of course

Yeps.

I'd also like to present Exhibit A:

http://www.mx6.com/forums/fs-cars/234212-1993-mx6-race-car.html

Also have to take into consideration that the cost of entry for the MX6 in decent shape will be considerably less than the others.

I just sold a complete but disassembled 93 v6/5spd mx6 for $150.

Vigo wrote: I just sold a complete but disassembled 93 v6/5spd mx6 for $150.

DUDE. NO. Why wasn't i aware of this? Poop. That would have enabled me to get the Escort V6'd for under $600 total. Or hell, just get me another backup car.

I am both impressed and surprised about the level of support for the E30 BMW. I was not aware of the level of fan base it had in the GRM community. With that said, I look forward to test driving each model in a step that will hopefully eliminate one candidate. From what I am reading, the BMW is strong in the race.

In reply to 93celicaGT2:

That is one freakishly fast MX6! 10 K will get you a race car that can smoke a newer Porsche, WOW!

deveous9 wrote: In reply to 93celicaGT2: That is one freakishly fast MX6! 10 K will get you a race car that can smoke a newer Porsche, WOW!

I think he's dropped the price to $6500 actually.

You could duplicate a HUGE chunk of that for fairly cheap and still keep it fairly comfy for the daily drive. Nice KLZE-swapped MX6s go for under $4k all day on those forums. A KLZE MX6 is nothing to sneeze at.

As an aside, the more i look at the Scooby, the more i realize that they blatantly ripped off the 90-93 Celica GT RC bumper.

A KLZE swap is not a bad idea but it is more for somebody who strictly tracks that car. I plan on only adding minimal upgrades such as an intake, exhaust and suspension mods.

deveous9 wrote: A KLZE swap is not a bad idea but it is more for somebody who strictly tracks that car. I plan on only adding minimal upgrades such as an intake, exhaust and suspension mods.

Yeah, that's understandable. The KLDE in there isn't really hard up for power in that car anyways. It's probably the fastest car out of the three in the first place. On the flip side, the KLZE swap is stupidly easy, pretty cheap, and is still easily daily driveable. The Millenia could be had with what's pretty much a KLZE.

deveous9 wrote: I am both impressed and surprised about the level of support for the E30 BMW. I was not aware of the level of fan base it had in the GRM community.

You've been an active member for nine months and missed that? :D

Miata is always the answer, unless have kids, then it’s an E30 (or E36, lately). http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/grm-top-10/5539/page1/

If you don't want to go through with a whole engine swap, you can get a pretty decent boost just by swapping out the intake manifold to one from a ZE. Most of the easy power in that engine can be extracted by opening up that intake manifold.

As 93CelicaGT2 mentioned, it will probably be the fastest of the three on a road course, given similar amounts of prep. In streetable trim, it may even be the most tossable of the three. Despite their size, they don't weigh very much and come from the factory with fairly workable suspension and big brakes. That and at the prices that you can get an MX6 nowadays, you could easily get a second one should something unfortunate happen at the track.

If I cared about day to day comfort though, I'd take the Subaru. The MX6 chassis is a bit flexy, so it doesn't soak up bumps and irregular surfaces as nicely as the Impreza. There's also a bit of a hollow feeling to certain interior bits (namely the doors) that belie its semi-luxury trim. This is all corrected pretty easily with a few braces and some soundproofing mat, but I'm not sure if you'd be willing to go through the trouble of doing that. The downside is that the Impreza will be quite slow. The AWD powertrain really sucks the life out of those things. If you want to go Subaru AWD, I'd see if a 2.5RS fits into your budget.

I have no particular affinity to low power RWD, so the E30 doesn't appeal to me as much as it does to a lot of people. It is surprisingly pleasant on a day to day basis though, and with a decent amount of work it can be pretty fast. In all likelihood, I'll end up with a Spec E30 in my driveway one of these days. At the same time the interior ergonomics, power / weight ratio, the mileage, and the cost of entry would preclude me from buying one as a street car.

DUDE. NO. Why wasn't i aware of this? Poop. That would have enabled me to get the Escort V6'd for under $600 total. Or hell, just get me another backup car.

Well when i say just i guess it was before i was active here.. september of last year maybe? I buy a lot of cars but dont sell many (uh oh) so it seems more recent than it was i guess

93celicaGT2 wrote:

deveous9 wrote: In reply to 93celicaGT2: That is one freakishly fast MX6! 10 K will get you a race car that can smoke a newer Porsche, WOW!

I think he's dropped the price to $6500 actually. You could duplicate a HUGE chunk of that for fairly cheap and still keep it fairly comfy for the daily drive. Nice KLZE-swapped MX6s go for under $4k all day on those forums. A KLZE MX6 is nothing to sneeze at. As an aside, the more i look at the Scooby, the more i realize that they blatantly ripped off the 90-93 Celica GT RC bumper.

Oddly enough, it was only particularly blatant on US models.

last picture: WTF?

If you go with the '99 - '01 2.2L Subie it will be a phase II motor (do a search to confirm).

The really nice thing about that is the 2.5L RS motor from a '99+ Forester will drop right in. Even the injector part numbers are the same. I did the swap in my last '99 Impreza Outback Sport and it really came alive. No ECU tuning or check engine lights in 10,000 miles. I think they're incredibly easy to work on too.

What does a MX-6 with a V6 weigh? I may be basing my 'heavy' assertion off comparing more recent cars (like the truly portly Mazda6).

FWD is perfectly fine for a track car...up to a point. I drove and defended FWD cars for years, and they are great fun in the rain, passing all those V-8 muscle cars, but when it comes right down to it, RWD is still the most fun.

SlickDizzy wrote:

that the prototype to the "bug eyed" Impreza WRX?