Mazdaspeed Turbo engine into an NA Miata?

I'm sure that someone has attempted to swap an MSM Turbo engine into an NA Miata by now. How difficult would it be to get it all sorted out?

I think, upon some research (not from me, others have researched), the general consensus was that a aftermarket set-up like a FM kit was cheaper and more powerful option.

The problem is that the MS Turbo was just OK, while the aftermarket setups tend to range from OK to Very Good. FM even has goodies to bring the most out of the MS engine.

It could certainly be done, but unless you've got a spare MS Turbo engine just laying around, it's probably much easier and probably cheaper to go aftermarket.

That said, I don't think it would be all that difficult to sort out.

The MS Turbo was a VERY entertaining ride... I almost bought one two years ago, and would still love to get one now.

However... bad gearing and an early-to-bed redline kindof stifled the fun a little.

But it was still way more fun than it should have been with only like 178hp or whatever it was. Sucker had no problems kicking out the rear end on the test drive on a hard 2-3 shift.

A very common question. Just so people know, here's the poop.

The basic engine is essentially a 1999-00 one. Same head, slightly different cams, the oil pan and intake manifold from a 2001-05. It has oil drain and feed fittings and a tweak to the water pump inlet shape to clear the compressor inlet.

The intercooler piping takes advantage of a hole through the body that is only on the 2001-05 cars. Well, it's there on the 1999-00s from what I remember, but the headlights block it.

The exhaust setup is unique to the MSM. It shares the rear axle flange location with other NBs, and nothing at all with an NA. You can fit the entire exhaust system to an NA if you add a couple of hangers.

The ECU is MSM-specific, although it'll physically plug into other 2001-05 harnesses.

The turbo is a cute little fella. In stock form, it's choked off by a very restrictive (and warranty-friendly) intake as well as downpipe.

But here's the problem. The stock intercooler is tiny. The intake setup is super-restrictive. The downpipe should be replaced to wake up the exhaust. The ECU sucks. By the time you've dealt with all of these problems, you're basically only using the turbo and manifold from the MSM - and you're stuck with a small range of exhaust options because of it. If the price is right, view it like a GReddy turbo setup - just a turbo and manifold with everything left as an exercise to the installer. We did that on our Westfield, the packaging of the MSM turbo and manifold was just what we needed.

It's telling that a lot of MSM owners have installed FM II conversion kits, essentially ridding themselves of all the things that make an MSM mechanically different than a 2004 Miata other than the head.

All this doesn't mean the MSM is a lame duck. With a few simple modifications, the laggy delivery wakes up and the car is happy with a solid 200 rwhp - up from 150 stock, and with a big improvement in the bottom end. The rest of the platform is good, with a nice interior and a quality suspension. Swap the stock 6-speed out for a 5-speed and your gearing problems are solved. It's just not worth the effort cramming the MSM-specific parts into another car.

Unfortunately, every MSM engine that I've seen has been FMII priced, or higher. However, it only delivers Voodoo power levels. I'd either

1.stick a Voodoo II on your existing engine,

or (if you're doing this because you need a new engine),

1. Get an appropriate 1.8 and get a Voodoo / Voodoo II. Heck, FM could likely get you the right kit with a simple phone call, no matter what year the car chassis (and wiring loom) is.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you could get a used NA 1.8, early NB heads (better flowing), and a Voodoo II for less than the cost of the MSM engines that I've seen.

The MSM head IS the early NB head. And the late NB head flows just as well, it just has VVT to help perk up the low end. FYI.

While I think the Voodoo II suggestion is an excellent one - quick, everybody buy one! - you do have to look at the complete package on the MSM. Suspension, clutch, seats, chassis bracing, brakes, etc. Ironically, they weren't good sellers when new but the prices have held quite steady since then as the aftermarket has matured.

mistanfo wrote: Unfortunately, every MSM engine that I've seen has been FMII priced, or higher. However, it only delivers Voodoo power levels. I'd either 1.stick a Voodoo II on your existing engine, or (if you're doing this because you need a new engine), 2. Get an appropriate 1.8 and get a Voodoo / Voodoo II. Heck, FM could likely get you the right kit with a simple phone call, no matter what year the car chassis (and wiring loom) is. I have a sneaking suspicion that you could get a used NA 1.8, early NB heads (better flowing), and a Voodoo II for less than the cost of the MSM engines that I've seen.

You just about nailed it (except for the needing a new engine part).

I've said this many times, but I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Voodoo II (the FM II is just too expensive for me to justify).

Then I stumbled upon this and started thinking:

http://www.miata.net/cgi-bin/isc/classifieds.cgi?action=detail&AdNumber=79217&CategoryID=114&SubID=1088&Position=10&TotalCount=37&Session=497632161e44aa9f&FirstPage=&LastPage=20&prevaction=show

Still leaning towards the Voodoo II, though.

Woody, as soon as my Begi kit arrives I'm going to sell a Greddy kit off my NA. If it's not sold to some already interested parties I'll post it in the $2009 classifieds.

Thanks but if I'm going to turbo this particular car, it's going to be an FM kit.

Just one thing to consider pricewise:if you were to buy that MSM engine you'd have stock parts to sell and recoup some cost.

Keith wrote: slightly different cams,

Nifty. Any insight as to how different?

I'm not sure what the specs are, but it's the intake. There's a different part number cast into it. The exhaust cam could be ground differently on the same blank, but Mazda doesn't seem to do that.

was anyone else hoping this would be about one of the new 2.3 mazdaspeed motors from an ms3 or ms6?

bluej wrote: was anyone else hoping this would be about one of the new 2.3 mazdaspeed motors from an ms3 or ms6?

God yes. I'd love to have my MS3 motor in my NA Miata.

OK, so it took me too long to type with the hand all bound, so Keith beat me, and said it so much better. $1600 isn't terrible, but I wonder what you would need to control everything. I'm thinking MegaSquirt at the least.

I wish you guys hadn't mentioned that car again....

I know i should buy an NA instead. But there's just something about this car that makes my loins ticklish.

off to look i go.

mistanfo wrote: OK, so it took me too long to type with the hand all bound, so Keith beat me, and said it so much better. $1600 isn't terrible, but I wonder what you would need to control everything. I'm thinking MegaSquirt at the least.

You'd control it the exact same way you'd control any turbocharged Miata. A Voodoo box would be a good budget option, as it's a nice match to that turbo.

One of our club members has done a swap into an NA to include the entire drivetrain and subframes. He is cleaning up in SM2 with 275/35-15s and Flyin' Miata's suspension parts.

http://www.miataclubofhawaii.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2138&highlight=project