McMaster Carr v Amazon

We buy a lot of hardware for work, and usually for R&D we use McMaster Carr.  For anything production, we source it locally.  It is usually cheaper and you actually get service to go with it, such as they will visit your facility and show you product, etc.  I have always had good luck with McMaster, but they are by far not the cheapest.  Fastenal I have not had such good luck and they are usually more expensive.  Just like buying rubber, there will probably be a local fastener company that wants your business.

What you need for marine applications is 316 stainless steel which has a lower carbon content. Most stainless steel fasteners are 304 which will corrode/rust especially in salt water. Would probably trust MacMaster Carr for getting exactly what you need versus a generic stainless steel. Unless Amazon specifically lists the alloy. I like Fastenal because they usually have a store fairly close to just pick up.but have also used MacMaster Carra lot. Do you have any Graingers in your area? 

tuna55 said:

 

McMaster can have anything I want delivered tomorrow. The shipping cost? They won't even tell me. For work, I do not care.

 

I ran in to that a while back, actually.  I was trying to order some plastic sheet that was similar to Sintra for some cosplay project I was working on.  Shopping around various places on the Internet, I found what I was looking for pretty cheap but the shipping costs varied wildly and there were a surprising number of places that wanted upwards of $100 to do regular ground shipping of $30 worth of sheets.  McMaster took about three days to tell me what they would charge me for shipping but by that time I had already ordered elsewhere.  It's kind of odd to me that in this day and age calculating shipping rates is that difficult. 

Previous orders from them have had reasonable shipping rates, and I seem to recall that they would have only been a couple bucks more on an all-in price than the source I wound up using, but when the difference could have been 3x the cost, it wasn't a chance I felt comfortable taking.

In reply to pirate :

Besides being a total zoo on weekdays (and being closed on weekends) the  Grainger near me is kind of hit or miss for fasteners.  In the past tho I've mostly only been looking for metric car-related bolts etc., not marine stainless.  From your suggestion I just checked their website, but unfortunately it doesn't give as detailed a spec as Macmaster. I went ahead and ordered from MMac this time, but maybe I'll go by Grainger when I take my boy to get his new cub scout uniform. 
 

Edit: I had to laugh at my last sentence. Grainger is right by the scout shop, so I guess I typed what was running through my head!

My son just diagnosed a bad blower motor in his furnace/AC unit.  $290 at Amazon, + shipping + 4 days wait.

He went to a Grainger store 20 miles away; don't have your GE unit as they're no longer made.  Dayton makes one, in stock for $220.

Unlike Amazon, local and tech advise is free.

Buy local.

wae said:

tuna55 said:

 

McMaster can have anything I want delivered tomorrow. The shipping cost? They won't even tell me. For work, I do not care.

 

I ran in to that a while back, actually.  I was trying to order some plastic sheet that was similar to Sintra for some cosplay project I was working on.  Shopping around various places on the Internet, I found what I was looking for pretty cheap but the shipping costs varied wildly and there were a surprising number of places that wanted upwards of $100 to do regular ground shipping of $30 worth of sheets.  McMaster took about three days to tell me what they would charge me for shipping but by that time I had already ordered elsewhere.  It's kind of odd to me that in this day and age calculating shipping rates is that difficult. 

Previous orders from them have had reasonable shipping rates, and I seem to recall that they would have only been a couple bucks more on an all-in price than the source I wound up using, but when the difference could have been 3x the cost, it wasn't a chance I felt comfortable taking.

As someone who works in calculating shipping - it IS that difficult.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

That's my issue with "Fastenal"- I went into one of their stores which is really close to me here in town.  They had some US spec fasteners, but very few of anything else.  Our local hardware store has a MUCH better selection of fasteners.  I was able to direct replace some fasteners on my Alfa at the hardware store that Fastensome didn't have.

My local Fastenal has a pretty good selection in stock, certainly better than the Lowes-Depots which are always a crapshoot of missing/mis-sorted product.  Unfortunately, the last time I went in (2 years ago?), they directed me to a smaller section specifically for small purchases.  They used to be willing to open in-stock packages.

I love McMaster Carr for finding hardware I didn't know existed but I have a burning need for.

Follow Up .  I ordered two different pairs of stainless hinges from McMaster.  They just arrived, and look nice/well made.  Both hinge styles have a sticker for "Seadog Line - Made in Taiwan."  Here's the funny bit: These are the exact same hinges I would have purchased on Amzn! 

Here's how the pricing breaks down:  Hinge Type 1:   McMaster 24.64.  Amzn Price = 12.93, free Prime shipping. Hinge Type 2:  McMaster 17.46.  Amzn Price = 18.48, free Prime shipping.  McMaster charged $4.05 in tax and $6.20 in shipping, so all-in the cost differential ended up being $20.94.  (I've never figured out how Amz calculates sales tax, so the difference might have been lower.)

I haven't decided what lesson to draw from this. I guess I feel like the McMaster item has a higher chance of being the "real" name brand identified, to the extent that matters, while there might be a higher chance of getting knock-offs from Amzn.  That said, Amz.'s free shipping/returns is a pretty good value, while the McMaster "black box" shipping cost irks me for personal projects.  Hm.

25 years ago I was a plant manager and we had garbage outside in our yard so ordered a McMaster Carr garbage pickup stick.  
 

When it arrived it was an awl pushed into a piece of PVC pipe with a rubber handle bar piece pushed on one end.  I felt ripped off and they gave me a credit.  

ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) said:

Follow Up .  I ordered two different pairs of stainless hinges from McMaster.  They just arrived, and look nice/well made.  Both hinge styles have a sticker for "Seadog Line - Made in Taiwan."  Here's the funny bit: These are the exact same hinges I would have purchased on Amzn! 

Here's how the pricing breaks down:  Hinge Type 1:   McMaster 24.64.  Amzn Price = 12.93, free Prime shipping. Hinge Type 2:  McMaster 17.46.  Amzn Price = 18.48, free Prime shipping.  McMaster charged $4.05 in tax and $6.20 in shipping, so all-in the cost differential ended up being $20.94.  (I've never figured out how Amz calculates sales tax, so the difference might have been lower.)

I haven't decided what lesson to draw from this. I guess I feel like the McMaster item has a higher chance of being the "real" name brand identified, to the extent that matters, while there might be a higher chance of getting knock-offs from Amzn.  That said, Amz.'s free shipping/returns is a pretty good value, while the McMaster "black box" shipping cost irks me for personal projects.  Hm.

The big risk with Amazon is that there's no guarantee. Selling there is all about being 1c cheaper than anyone else to capture the "buy box", and if you get caught selling crap, well, you just disappear. So while the ad on Amazon may have been for Seadog hinges, depending on who got tapped to sell the part you may get Seadog or you may get something that looks kinda like one or you may get a knockoff that's been given a Seadog logo.

There's also the risk you'll end up with some sort of returned item. That return policy gets badly abused and nobody is inspecting parts that come back. Amazon is not just a vendor for themselves, they're also a massive selling platform that's taking on eBay and may only be providing a listing and payment service. Or maybe listing, payment and order fulfillment.

As for how tax is calculated, it's based on the shipping address and if the seller has established economic nexus in your area. Since it's not always Amazon you're actually buying from, that nexus status may vary widely.

 

There's also the risk you'll end up with some sort of returned item. That return policy gets badly abused and nobody is inspecting parts that come back. Amazon is not just a vendor for themselves, they're also a massive selling platform that's taking on eBay and may only be providing a listing and payment service. Or maybe listing, payment and order.

The return risk is very real. I ordered an automotive part from Amazon. When it arrived it was in original brand name packaging. Did not look tampered with at all. However after opening the box found a well used part. Obviously someone ordered same part put used part back in original packaging and returned it for credit. Amazon never checked return.Also ordered some rather expensive perfume for wife. When it arrived wife opened package smelled it and said "this is not the real stuff" I smelled it and even I could tell the difference. Obviously a well done knock off. This was on two different occasions about a year apart.

Of course each time Amazon credited account immediately with no questions asked. I have never been refused return item if not what I wanted, quality, size etc. I was in one of those resale/discount store looking around (pre COVID-19) and found numerous items that were in Amazon boxes or plastic packaging. There must be threshold dollar amount they don't even bother to reprocess.

If the parts are being sold by a third party but fulfilled by Amazon, Amazon doesn't check it. The seller can ask for parts to be returned so they can be inspected, but that costs money. So the seller can either have parts that are identified by the customer as "new" to go back on the shelf, or they can ask Amazon to dispose of them. Obviously the best choice from a profit/loss standpoint is to put them back on the shelf and then just absorb any refunds that happen because of fraud. 

A friend of mine sells reuseable trays for automatic cat boxes on Amazon. He sent me a half dozen of out his return pile. One was a competitor's product that had been repackaged in his box, someone traded. One was used (eww). One was the starter disposable tray that comes with the cat box, the customer had taken the new part out and repackaged the freebie and returned it. Out of the six he sent, at least half were fraudulent returns. He no longer "recycles" returned parts, they are disposed of thanks to this feedback. Wasteful, yes. Higher cost to everyone, yes. People are shiny happy people, yes.

And yeah, if it costs more to ship something back than it's worth, you just replace it. We have that policy as well.

wae said:

I ran in to that a while back, actually.  I was trying to order some plastic sheet that was similar to Sintra for some cosplay project I was working on.  Shopping around various places on the Internet, I found what I was looking for pretty cheap but the shipping costs varied wildly and there were a surprising number of places that wanted upwards of $100 to do regular ground shipping of $30 worth of sheets.  McMaster took about three days to tell me what they would charge me for shipping but by that time I had already ordered elsewhere.  It's kind of odd to me that in this day and age calculating shipping rates is that difficult. 

I'm not entirely sure what couriers McMaster uses for shipping, but they're often able to get things there the same day, long before Amazon offered such a service. I don't know how they pull that off, but it looks like they contract with a network of local courier services and aren't just using companies like UPS or FedEx. Many of the small time couriers don't have an instant quote capability.

I'm a big McMaster fan - been buying from them for about 25 years.  They sell quality stuff, they have accurate 3d models available for free and without a log-in required.  I've returned things to them years after buying them (in the original packaging).

One of the companies I worked for had problems with Fastenal.  Their sales guy would mess with the bolt-bin filling and charge for things we didn't need.  They also way over-charged on some specific fastener orders.  Basically picked the most expensive option for everything we needed.  Left a bad taste on them.  They may be better now.

I don't really like or trust Amazon - I know I'm unusual that way.  You never know what you're really buying or where it's coming from.  I seldom get anything from them.  And there's always some stupid lady in front of me at the UPS store returning 700 packages...

I'll be honest I have been more and more curious about this lately when I need 3 bolts for a personal project.  I often don't want to order from McMaster because it doubles or triples the price of my ~$8 budget project I am working on (and I have 47 leftover bolts), but LowesDepot/ACE just don't have the hardware selection I need.

Professionally, McMaster, hands down because I can actually find what I am looking for.  Amazon, Ebay, etc. have a terrible search engine when it comes to hardware.  Its the same reason I won't order from Grainger or MSC either.  They are good if you are replenishing stock or something, but I spec out different hardware all the time and those websites are so tedious it would cost many times the price of the actual hardware just in wasted hours navigating.

Additonally, when I get a bolt its usually not to replace a bolt, its because I am designing something and I need to know exact dims.  McMaster is excellent about providing CAD drawings & models for all their stuff, unlike Ebay where you will get a description like '#10 x 3" grade 8 screw' and that's it.

I think you are a LOT less likely to get a box of crap from McMaster Carr.  Hardware may come from China, but will not be chinesium.

ProDarwin said:

I'll be honest I have been more and more curious about this lately when I need 3 bolts for a personal project.  I often don't want to order from McMaster because it doubles or triples the price of my ~$8 budget project I am working on (and I have 47 leftover bolts), but LowesDepot/ACE just don't have the hardware selection I need.

Professionally, McMaster, hands down because I can actually find what I am looking for.  Amazon, Ebay, etc. have a terrible search engine when it comes to hardware.  Its the same reason I won't order from Grainger or MSC either.  They are good if you are replenishing stock or something, but I spec out different hardware all the time and those websites are so tedious it would cost many times the price of the actual hardware just in wasted hours navigating.

Additonally, when I get a bolt its usually not to replace a bolt, its because I am designing something and I need to know exact dims.  McMaster is excellent about providing CAD drawings & models for all their stuff, unlike Ebay where you will get a description like '#10 x 3" grade 8 screw' and that's it.

 

 

That's EXACTLY why, professionally, I use McMaster.  

If you want anything from McMaster Carr shipped to Canada, you need to have it sent to a school or business. They won't ship to a residential address. P*ssed me off majorly - I needed 50 small nylon spacers that MC had listed at a whole $5. They immediately cancelled my order saying "the cost and complexity of shipping to Canada means we don't do it unless you are a business or a school" - in other words they'll ship the same product to the school down the street but not to my house just up the road. The package would have been the size of a business card. Still, the selection was impressive.

edwardh80 said:

If you want anything from McMaster Carr shipped to Canada, you need to have it sent to a school or business. They won't ship to a residential address. P*ssed me off majorly - I needed 50 small nylon spacers that MC had listed at a whole $5. They immediately cancelled my order saying "the cost and complexity of shipping to Canada means we don't do it unless you are a business or a school" - in other words they'll ship the same product to the school down the street but not to my house just up the road. The package would have been the size of a business card. Still, the selection was impressive.

That's annoying but shipping to individuals in Canada opens up a whole can of regulator rules and paperwork and I totally get why an industrial supply house wouldn't want to invvest in the infrastructure to do it.

Almost all hardware I need I used to get small Dorman branded boxes from O'Reilly. Since I worked there, it was super cheap and I knew exactly how to search that system for the specs I wanted. Now, I have the Tacoma Screw HQ about 5 minutes from my house. They have had anything I've ever needed (so far). I can't even fathom trying to order hardware on amazon. I'd get too frustrated. McM is amazing but I always only need 3 of one bolt, 4 of another cap screw. I'm too cheap/impatient to wait.

Am I the only one that just goes to rural king and buys by the pound?

I may or may not know a Canadian who has a PO box in Minnesota due to the shipping thing.