The 36-2-2-2 code should work for an MZR crank wheel, but not the cam on MS2. So it will work fine for wasted spark, just not COP. There is an MS3 MZR version, but it wasn't back ported to MS2. There were a lot of cam wheel patterns used with that crank trigger. Exactly what MS firmware variant are you using? This problem seems to imply you're using an older firmware that needs an update.
dean1484 said:In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
Everyone thinks they want COP and if you are revving your car to the moon then yes it could be a help for us mortals wast apart is fine. The one down side is if a coil goes bad you loose two cylinders as opposed to only one.
You can also run a CoP-wasted setup that doesn't require a cam sensor, my AE92 is set up that way (with a MS3X):
It's the latest firmware as far as I can tell. 3.4.4. I got a good rpm reading with the 36-2-2-2, but the spark didn't seem to come at the right time, leading me to believe that the "4cyl" setting is for a Subaru which has a different firing order than the normal inline 4.
Wondering if I can't modify the mount of the current vr sensor to get it close enough to read the ford 36-1 wheel.
GameboyRMH said:dean1484 said:In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
Everyone thinks they want COP and if you are revving your car to the moon then yes it could be a help for us mortals wast apart is fine. The one down side is if a coil goes bad you loose two cylinders as opposed to only one.
You can also run a CoP-wasted setup that doesn't require a cam sensor, my AE92 is set up that way (with a MS3X):
I do like that idea- DIYAutotune strongly recommended LS coils, so I have those for now. I kept the Mazda COP's so maybe that's an option for the future. For now I just want the motor to run.
The 36-2-2-2 I'm pretty sure is RX-8 specific. That's what I run on my Lotus 7 replica with an RX-8 motor. I think you're on the right path going with a 36-1 wheel instead.
Correct that it is for a Subaru - but the outputs always fire in an A-B, A-B pattern. Wire up the spark plugs by firing order (A firing 1-4 and B firing 2-3 on an MZR), set the trigger angle, and it should work.
In reply to MadScientistMatt :
That is what I was thinking... the firing order does not matter, and can't you define what cylinder A and B and C and D are for individual management purposes?
F. So why would I get a random hit on #3 (only) and nothing else? If I can make the 36-2-2-2 work that would be great. Wonder if the trigger angle I set was incorrect. But it still seems like I should have gotten a backfire.
Any chance your startup/warmup just needs more fuel? Have you adjusted the ITB's at all yet?
I've run both gm truck, and Mazda cops in waste spark setups, check your wiring/firing order like they said.
Wet plugs and fuel smell tell me plenty of gas. It would only grab a hit when I opened the throttle to about 30%.
I checked firing order. I'll do so again.
Teh E36 M3 said:F. So why would I get a random hit on #3 (only) and nothing else? If I can make the 36-2-2-2 work that would be great. Wonder if the trigger angle I set was incorrect. But it still seems like I should have gotten a backfire.
First check to see what coils fire in output test mode. Then check to be sure you have full sync during cranking (steady RPM signal and no loss of sync flags). Last step, get a timing light on it. You may need to paint timing marks if the engine doesn't have them. Start with a zero trigger angle and adjust from there.
GameboyRMH said:dean1484 said:In reply to Teh E36 M3 :
Everyone thinks they want COP and if you are revving your car to the moon then yes it could be a help for us mortals wast apart is fine. The one down side is if a coil goes bad you loose two cylinders as opposed to only one.
You can also run a CoP-wasted setup that doesn't require a cam sensor, my AE92 is set up that way (with a MS3X):
That is actually really cool. Makes it so you only need one trigger wheel even with COP.
MadScientistMatt said:Teh E36 M3 said:F. So why would I get a random hit on #3 (only) and nothing else? If I can make the 36-2-2-2 work that would be great. Wonder if the trigger angle I set was incorrect. But it still seems like I should have gotten a backfire.
First check to see what coils fire in output test mode. Then check to be sure you have full sync during cranking (steady RPM signal and no loss of sync flags). Last step, get a timing light on it. You may need to paint timing marks if the engine doesn't have them. Start with a zero trigger angle and adjust from there.
Replaced wheel back to 36-2-2-2. Good rpm reading while cranking.
pulled plugs and cranked. 1 and 3 have nice fat sparks. #2 and #4 aren't firing. Swapped coils/plugs/wires. No fire condition follows coils. So for whatever reason 2 and 4 aren't going. At least it's something.
So logic outputs C and D aren't firing. It must be that I misquoted the damn thing. Time to pull the harness apart.
I'm so dumb. I can't believe I read the wiring diagram wrong. I'll get it rewired tomorrow.
Teh E36 M3 said:I'm so dumb. I can't believe I read the wiring diagram wrong. I'll get it rewired tomorrow.
You are not the first, and you won't be the last, to suffer a self-induced wiring issue. On the contrary, I'd say you're in pretty good company. ;-)
Are you using WLED and ALED as spark outputs on the MicroSquirt? If so, do you have pull up resistors installed?
Personally, I'd just wire IGN1 and IGN2 to two coils so I could use WLED and ALED as extra outputs.
Yes- using them for C and D outputs with resistors but I miswired them.
Can I split ign 1 and 2? I think it would mean ign1 would go to a and c coils (corresponding with cyls 1 and 4) and ign2 would go to b and d (corresponding with cyl 2 and 3)
Rewired so Aand C coil use ign1 and B and D use ign 2. Spark plug test shows 2/3 and 1/4 sparking simultaneously. IGN timing with the light appears to be at tdc. Didn't change when I moved trigger angle from 80 to 90. Still troubleshooting.
Massively frustrating. All four are sparking, compression is happening, fuel is happening. Occasional pop from #4 several start attempts with nada. Sync loss only on last gasp of each start. Otherwise showing synced, with good rpm reading.
3 and 4 seem to catch intermittently (warmish header tubes) but 1 and 2 have cold headers. All four plugs are firing. Verified timing off #1 cyl at 10 deg btdc while cranking. #3 backfires through the throttle body occasionally.
Pulled valve cover and verified cam timing.
Im wondering if the 550cc injectors I bought from fab9 are what they say they are. Looks like on close inspection the serial numbers are dremeled off. I might dig out the original injectors
At this point this is as much a log of what I'm doing as anything else.
Well. It started. I dont know what the hell I've been doing lately but nothing has been great.
#3 and 4 seemed to be hitting and it almost would start. Finally the throttle wouldn't open (?). So I pull the screens off the throttle bodies and 1/2:
if you look carefully, you can see the caps for the throttle bodies are sucked all the way into the throttle butterflies.
Pulled those and it started fine. Rpm all over the place but it ran for about 30 seconds and I heard a screeching noise.
I used this oil sandwich plate because the stock one wouldn't fit. Notice the "out" is on the left. I had it plumbed on the right for whatever dumb, and very expensive reason.
My excitement at starting has quickly become despair. I'm going to have to start over with a new engine I think. The hardest part is I almost didn't build the engine out just because I wanted to get it running, but then Covid and I just decided to build the whole thing. Forged crank, steel rods, forged pistons, SBD cams, ported head (self). I'm just sad right now.
I will live to play another day.
I appreciate all the help and encouragement. Especially the technical help with MS. The 36-2-2-2 wheel works with Microsquirt. So that's good. I just can't believe the number of mistakes I made in one week. I swear I double checked plumbing. I think I tried flying too close to the sun.
I have a video of it running... sounds not bad until the end.
I felt that gut punch across the internet. I feel for you my dude.
Oof. I'm sorry, that hurts.
I know it's going to be a ton of work, but I'm crossing my fingers that with the short time and low load that the actual scrapped-parts count is "bearings."
Man that hurts but also hoping for best case bearings only.
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