MG Midget for track and road; what do I need to know?

Ok, still exploring the options on the what the next track car is going to be. Originally, it was going to be a Pro Challenge car; 2/3 size 'stock car' with a bike engine, sequential shift, at 1500 lbs. Giddy up.

But then I got to thinking (often a bad idea); wouldn't it be great if I could occasionally drive the 'race car' to work or on the weekends? For me, a race car is going to get used max 12 times a year (I've never done that many events). So that's why I started down the path of a 7 replica with my last post.

Well, 7s are few and far between up here (importing a built kit is a no-no) and people think they're worth a lot of money. Enter the Midget. I know that can be gotten down to 1500 LBS (GPS, or whatever he's calling himself now had a post about that last summer) and there's a ton of support and parts. I'm not sure how you get a motor in that on a budget that will put down 140-150 hp, but I think that wouldn't be to difficult if open to a swap.

So what do I need to know? Who's got one that they can let go cheap (the CAD is getting hammered, so right now it needs to be up here or a hella deal)?

Thanks, Jeff

I'm only familiar with Spridgets vintage racing in the VSCDA here in the Midwest. You can find nice race prepped Spridgets/Bugeyes in the 8k to 9k price range. And you are correct, parts and support are aplenty.

The general consensus (AFAIK) is to go with the 1275 engine and gearbox. This gives you the most bang for the buck.

The gent I've been crewing for has a street legal 68 Midget with a stock 1275, save a peppy cam and massaged HS2 carbs, and he hangs in there pretty good.

What kind of racing do you plan on doing?

I run with a pretty open group. We've joined forces with the Canadian Chump folks to run 1 day 3 race sprint events. Classing is pretty open. Probably wouldn't do vintage; to many rules.

The midget I was building in my head (check to make sure you actually fit in the car) was going to be powered by a Kia fe3 engine hooked to a mazda b2000 Trans and huffing turbo fumes with fiberglass flared fenders covering some relatively monster sized meats.

I did a lot with spridgets in high school. Guy I worked for ran a couple in scca at cmp. Driver kept blowing up engines from over revving, but my electrical never failed. I want to say the race car was 1300lbs or so before ballast.

I am not knowing much of Spridget engine swaps other than what I've read. There is an active forum on the topic here: http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/list.php?40

IIRC the stock drivetrain can only handle up to around 100 hp, give or take.

I will let others more knowledgable take it from there

Or you could, you know, just get a Miata.

They are always the answer......

I have owned Midgets and have fond memories.

I also have memories of how craptastic the gearboxes are. First gear is a non-synchro paper-mache amalgam. The synchros in the remaining gears (assuming there are any working gears) suck if they are good. And you need to shift a lot because with not much power and lousy ratio spacing you will think that you are rowing the car with the shift lever.

The front suspension was built by a total idiot. OK, the guy got the geometry but failed at mechanical engineering 101. As soon as you meet the lower trunion pin you will understand. Pretty much everything attached to the front corners is a consumable.

The road thing never really works out because between track sessions you are usually fixing whatever broke on the car. Something always does.

A well sorted MG Midget drives like a go-cart. The a-series engine is very nice, but at 100hp you are probably over what you would want to live with on the street.

These cars are not that cheap to build. Look for a used racecar and do what is required to street-prep it rather than the other way around.

I hate to say it, but for a dual purpose car, I would be looking at a Miata. I wanted to suggest the Exocet, but that gets pricey with our dollar being a US quarter.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/5362847915.html
Just import this starter kit.

This is a nice deal too. Again from reading this is a well sorted car: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/open-classifieds/1965-austin-healey-sprite-h-production-race-car/109326/page1/

Unfortunately I don't have any contacts in Canada.

I forgot to mention too- this road legal race car only likes race gas due to the cam (I'm told). He only drives it to get ice cream every now and again.

paranoid_android74 wrote: I am not knowing much of Spridget engine swaps other than what I've read. There is an active forum on the topic here: http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/list.php?40 IIRC the stock drivetrain can only handle up to around 100 hp, give or take. I will let others more knowledgable take it from there

You can get a Westfield into Canada, FM's own page says so. If that's what you really want, give them a call. https://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/FAQ.php

Having owned an Arkley Midget for a while the only way I would be driving one is with a turbo Sprint 3-cylinder bolted up to a Samurai transmission. The gearing would still be less than ideal, but it is probably the only 5-speed with od that would actually fit and the low torque and low weight of the Suzuki engine is probably the quickest power plant for the car that won't break everything else.

And using the lever action shock as the upper control arm? Really?

paranoid_android74 wrote: This is a nice deal too. Again from reading this is a well sorted car: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/open-classifieds/1965-austin-healey-sprite-h-production-race-car/109326/page1/ Unfortunately I don't have any contacts in Canada.

seller said: Unfortunately the gearbox worked on the jackstands but will not go into gear while the car is on the floor. If I get a chance, I’ll try another gearbox

I recently sold my 69 Midget after 25 years of ownership and a million mods. It left me with a 4age blacktop, miata based independent rear and miata front hubs. Yzf-R1 shocks that worked surprisingly well. Probably not legal for any racing organization, but it was a screamer. I'm bench building my next one with f20c power.

The easy button for a mad-fast Midget is a rotary swap. Engine, gearbox and rear axle out of a donor RX7. If you can abide rotary engines.

I swapped a 1600 DOHC and 5 speed out of a Fiat 124 into one of my Midgets and can assure you that an overpowered Midget is a lot of fun. It went down the 401 way to fast for the chassis, but I was young, stupid and lucky.

I have a bugeye that I am restoring.

Whats to stop you from just dropping a motorcycle engine into one? RHD conversion looks like it would be really easy (at least on the early ones) I have heard that my bugeye should be about 1300lbs, so even with a later car 1500lbs should be either already there or falling off a log with the full interior still in it.

Only problem with motor swapping one is getting a rear axle under it that can take more power. The stock rear axle is rather weak for anything past stock power, especially if you are going to be launching the car.

I actually had a possible line on a later chassis and was daydreaming about a build

The car I was thinking was as follows:

Convert to RHD,
add Yahama R1 motor (cutting up the left side footwell will likely be necessary),
Driveshaft output linkup to the R1 output through the trans tunnel,
Shorten a solid axle (I was thinking about looking into shortening a Winters Quickchange, so you can adjust gear ratios easily for racing/street use, but $$$ and an FB rx7 axle may be easy button to shorten)
Cage to reinforce the chassis and provide safety
Escentially, look to SCCA HP for suspension stuff on it

Apexcarver wrote: I have a bugeye that I am restoring. Whats to stop you from just dropping a motorcycle engine into one? RHD conversion looks like it would be really easy (at least on the early ones) I have heard that my bugeye should be about 1300lbs, so even with a later car 1500lbs should be either already there or falling off a log with the full interior still in it. Only problem with motor swapping one is getting a rear axle under it that can take more power. The stock rear axle is rather weak for anything past stock power, especially if you are going to be launching the car. I actually had a possible line on a later chassis and was daydreaming about a build The car I was thinking was as follows: Convert to RHD, add Yahama R1 motor (cutting up the left side footwell will likely be necessary), Driveshaft output linkup to the R1 output through the trans tunnel, Shorten a solid axle (I was thinking about looking into shortening a Winters Quickchange, so you can adjust gear ratios easily for racing/street use, but $$$ and an FB rx7 axle may be easy button to shorten) Cage to reinforce the chassis and provide safety Escentially, look to SCCA HP for suspension stuff on it

Here you go...huge build thread of what you describe. You be the judge. I will start you at the end.

http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?3,1645751,3166675#msg-3166675

I vintage race a Midget. I would echo the comment that it would best to start with a race Midget and turn it into a street car, assuming it has a title. You also want to look for a vintage race example, since the later rules sets probably allow too much modification to make a street car out of it.

A race car will have addressed the weak points like the prone-to-snap axles. It would preferably have a straight-cut close ratio transmission, which alleviates the weaknesses of the stock transmission as noted earlier. You can spend oodles of money on the 1275 modifying it, but best to stick with a mild build for longevity and tractability. It doesn't really make sense to build a super expensive motor in a car that still won't have much HP and is mostly about handling. Not that people don't do it anyway.

The rotary swap is relatively common, so there should be some good info out there.

Honestly, for a track/street car I'd recommend Miata, as well. A lot less maintenance, much better performance even in stock trim, less expensive to buy, modify and run. Even though I race one, I wouldn't drive a Midget on the street. It is just too small to be seen or to have a chance in an accident. Of course, I live in Houston, where giant pickups are king.

I forgot about Ian's "Hibachi" swap- haven't been in those parts for some time.

And I missed mention of Darryl's gearbox woes. That or I was too starry eyed while reading the listing. Thank you for pointing that out!

NOHOME wrote:

Apexcarver wrote: I have a bugeye that I am restoring. Whats to stop you from just dropping a motorcycle engine into one? RHD conversion looks like it would be really easy (at least on the early ones) I have heard that my bugeye should be about 1300lbs, so even with a later car 1500lbs should be either already there or falling off a log with the full interior still in it. Only problem with motor swapping one is getting a rear axle under it that can take more power. The stock rear axle is rather weak for anything past stock power, especially if you are going to be launching the car. I actually had a possible line on a later chassis and was daydreaming about a build The car I was thinking was as follows: Convert to RHD, add Yahama R1 motor (cutting up the left side footwell will likely be necessary), Driveshaft output linkup to the R1 output through the trans tunnel, Shorten a solid axle (I was thinking about looking into shortening a Winters Quickchange, so you can adjust gear ratios easily for racing/street use, but $$$ and an FB rx7 axle may be easy button to shorten) Cage to reinforce the chassis and provide safety Escentially, look to SCCA HP for suspension stuff on it

Here you go...huge build thread of what you describe. You be the judge. I will start you at the end. http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?3,1645751,3166675#msg-3166675

While still interesting, the idea of the 1500 LBS, 150 hp Midget seems to be a more difficult solution.

The Miata is an option, but the lightest one I've heard of (ran here in the GTA if I recall) was a roadsterized version at just under 2000 LBS. Light yes, but 500 LBS heavier than what I really want. And it would need 200 hp (turbo or swap time) to get the same P/W. I'm convinced of the light/medium power formula for low cost racing.

Maybe a PC car and a street roadster? Might be cheaper too.

Realistically, you could likely do a turbo Miata for cheaper than you could build a good roadrace motor swapped spridget.

I have a few friends pushing them well past 200hp that use theirs for trackdays.