Miata clutch problems

I stupidly decided i should replace my clutch before Miatas in Boone. (Well, not stupid. My old clutch was slipping.)

Garaithon_GRM and i replaced it, all went well.

Went for test drive, clutch needed to be adjusted. Normal. I adjusted it. Clutch doesn't fully disengage 80-85% of the time, making it nearly impossible to put in 1st or reverse, and it creeps forward in those gears. It also has the added "bonus" of shifting like garbage in all gears, because i'm fighting synchros and tearing up my expensive transmission. Unfortunately, i need to drive it anyways, because insurance STILL hasn't settled on my totaled Cherokee.

The fluid that was in it, after only 2000 miles, was pitch black and had a ton of particulates. We replaced the slave cylinder (present one was leaking after only 2000 miles, Thanks Exedy!) and flushed/bled the system. No change.

Last night, i replaced both the master and the slave again with Exedy units. No change.

I have adjusted the clutch as far up and down as humanly possible using the pushrod adjustments, doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on whether or not the clutch will disengage. I can have the engagement point up around my ears, still only disengages 15-20% of the time. Engagement point right off the floor, still 15-20%. The engagement point is staying consistent, pedal is not soft or sinking.

Details:

2000 Miata (6spd)
1.6/90-93 lightweight flywheel 1.6/90-93 ACT HDR4 clutch
949Racing extended clutch line
Exedy Slave cylinder
Exedy master cylinder

The oldest part in the system is the clutch line (2000 miles), which i'm assuming has no bearing on the problem.

I'm at a loss here. Can anyone help? I'm supposed to be leaving a week from today.

If you put the friction disc in backwards, this can happen.

Keith Tanner wrote: If you put the friction disc in backwards, this can happen.

That IS a possibility and i'm not saying there's no way i messed that up, because i didn't double check, but that's not an error i've made in the dozen or so clutches i've replaced, and there was a pretty big sticker that said "THIS SIDE TOWARDS FLYWHEEL."

Since it's looking like i'm going to have to drop the trans again and do this whole job again, i'll definitely own up to it if that's the boneheaded move i made.

Keith beat me to what I was going to say. My only other idea is air somewhere in the hydraulics. I know you bled it, but bleed it some more before dropping the trans!

2002maniac wrote: Keith beat me to what I was going to say. My only other idea is air somewhere in the hydraulics. I know you bled it, but bleed it some more before dropping the trans!

I've spent about 3 hours of my life, $40 on brake fluid, and $55 on hydraulics (1 duralast slave, 1 exedy slave, 1 exedy master cylinder, replacing a 2000 mile old exedy master, and 2000 mile old exedy slave) in bleeding this system since Sunday.

I'm 110% sure that i have all the air out of it.

Do you need to use any spacers at the throw out bearing with using the 1.6 flywheel/clutch and the 6 speed trans?

RossD wrote: Do you need to use any spacers at the throw out bearing with using the 1.6 flywheel/clutch and the 6 speed trans?

Not that the internet informed me about, no.

Everything i've read on it shows it to be as simple as drop in.

If you have adjusted at the pedal and moved things around under there as far as you can go then I would agree that you're probably looking at install fail.

Thrust bearing issue ...?

cut a hole in the floorboard so that you can push the pedal further down.

sorry, not helpful.

Verdict is: Defective clutch disc. One of the pads was a good 0.015" thicker than spec.

Bad timing. I leave on Wednesday, ACT as of right now can't get me a replacement until Tuesday. Super.

Next day shipping, sent out on Monday. Yup. We have tons (literally) of Miata clutch parts on the shelf, but I can't get them to you any earlier than Tuesday either.

I'm less peeved about that than the hours of my life wasted doing this job twice, the hydraulics i paid for and threw at the car, the extra fluids i've wasted, and the tools i had to buy this morning in order to do this job on my driveway in the rain anyways after Garaithon_GRM and i knocked it out at his work the first time to avoid me having to buy a bunch of tools.

This is now a $700 and many hours clutch job.

ACT was contacted at 9AM PST today. I didn't fly off the handle at the nice guy i was talking to, he didn't make the disc, but it's a little vexing. If they have it on the shelf, it could have been in my hands Monday.

I have to ask, what the heck were you adjusting? I haven't seen an adjustable slave since Datsuns in the early 70's, and if you are adjusting the pushrod on the master, you can only make it wrong. There is one spot that is correct, the rest of them are not.

As Streetwiseguy noted, for future reference, there is on only one correct setting for those adjustments (pedal height and free travel), conveniently located in the FSM. If those settings don't work you've got a problem.

The "free travel" portion is a grey area.

That said, i was moving it around simply to see if i could get it to disengage if i did stupid things with it. The answer was no, and i do know the correct way to adjust. (lengthen pushrod until it hits master, back off a hair, lock.)

Kenny_McCormic wrote: As Streetwiseguy noted, for future reference, there is on only one correct setting for those adjustments (pedal height and free travel), conveniently located in the FSM. If those settings don't work you've got a problem.

That's not true, and people who make statements like that are the reason the FM clutch instructions are so adamant that even if you're an ASE Master Tech, you still need to read the damn instructions On our clutches, we increase the throw to decrease pedal pressure and this requires pedal adjustment. Most of the times when we get phone calls, it's because an expert installed it.

ACT doesn't do that, but it's a legit thing to try if you know what you're doing and you're having trouble with disengaging a clutch.

But there is still only one spot that is correct, Keith. You need a touch of freeplay on the pushrod, no matter what master cylinder. If you raise the pedal stop to gain more travel for a different cylinder, then you lengthen the pushrod to provide a touch of freeplay. Period. berkeleying with it won't do anything but ruin your new clutch.

Sure, there's a correct spot. In the case of our clutches, it's not to be found in the FSM as those measurements are designed for a different clutch. And since we do recommend moving the upper stop on the pedal, adjusting the pushrod is necessary. Voila, clutch adjustment. The "official" spot is incorrect for our clutches.

Not reading the instructions does often lead to damage, yes. And I've been told many, many times by experts that they know how to adjust a clutch and they haven't had to adjust a clutch since forever and they're an ASE master tech and etc. Once the penis measuring contest is over and you get them to RTFM and actually adjust it, the clutch works properly. Yes, you need some free play. But not as much as the factory says every time, or not necessarily as much as a random old car may have.

Anyhow - my point is that adjusting the clutch can indeed solve problems. So can adjusting the brake pedal - as Swanky said, the factory specs are a range. If you've got something a little out of range on a car that's two decades old, you can often fix it.

Well if we're talking about a non OE type clutch, then sure, you go by what the included literature tells you, though as you said, there's still only one correct spot. I too know one of the "I know everything/my guess is good enough" type of techs, I call him dad.

Well... I like my clutches to engage right off the floor, so i have been known to run more free play than "called for" on clutches. That said, where this ACT wants to be is just about perfect for my wants.