In reply to frenchyd :
In general, the Miata is way less picky about maintenance, wayyy cheaper, and much easier to work on. Buy the nicest Miata with the best records within budget and he will have a good time. They made a ton of them so parts availability and general knowledge of upkeep is way more common than something like a s2k.
If it were a relative of mine who isn't a big car person but maybe looking to dip their toe into the car world, Miata is the answer without a doubt.
yupididit said:I've driven an AP1 and NB2 Miata back to back and I liked the NB2 more until about 6k rpm then I liked the S2K more lol
I think the extra power the s2k makes above 6k rpms makes it seem slower than it really is below 6k. The hp/tq numbers are very similar (stock) but then the s2k picks up dramatically. To me, there isn't much comparison between the two in stock form since the s2k was much more expensive and it should be better for that money difference.
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JAdams said:I think the extra power the s2k makes above 6k rpms makes it seem slower than it really is below 6k.
100% agree. And if you change teh VTEC switchover it gets even better.
At some point I made a similar set of graphs comparing the S2K motor to the EJ25 NA motor which people perceived as "torquey", while the S2000 was "gutless".
frenchyd said:Thanks for your insight. Are either of them anything the owner could rely on the local dealer to keep running? I'd rather not be the call he makes when problems occur. I have my own interests to consume my time. My thoughts are some time to deal with getting either in shape while he learns and helps. And then basically cut the cord.
The S2k has always been a rarer car compared to the Miata, so I would expect that a Mazda dealer would be more experienced in looking after a Miata than most Honda dealers would be looking after an S2k.
Either one is going to be rarer than their bread and butter cars, though. And depending on how old the Miata is, I'm not sure if the dealer techs have seen many of them (like NAs/NBs) recently. But those are half a rung up in complexity from the infamous box of rocks and IMHO make a much better intro to wrenching than an S2k. Not that the S2k is hard to work on, but it'll be more expensive if you get something wrong.
When you're posting dyno charts, don't forget the S2000 is 400-600 lbs heavier than the Miata so you're not quite comparing apples to apples. They have different feels to them as well, the S2000 feels larger and you sit further down inside it - but I suspect they probably fit bigger people than Miatas do. I agree that you don't get to fully experience the car on the street.
An FM turbo system for the Miata is going to be roughly $4000, assuming we're taking NA or NB.
Keith Tanner said:When you're posting dyno charts, don't forget the S2000 is 400-600 lbs heavier than the Miata so you're not quite comparing apples to apples.
Agreed, but if you are posting that, you should proably correct for gearing as well.
In reply to ProDarwin :
And let's not forget aero!
Point of reference: I've owned both. Unless he can steal the S2k, I'd go with the Miata. But given the way NA prices have been creeping up I'd consider looking for an NC. It's a nicer drive and can be turned into a decent performer with some common bolt-on mods.
A very good condition Miata just sold on BaT, https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-mazda-mazdaspeed-miata-118/
And an S2000, https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-honda-s2000-116/
ProDarwin said:JAdams said:I think the extra power the s2k makes above 6k rpms makes it seem slower than it really is below 6k.
100% agree. And if you change teh VTEC switchover it gets even better.
At some point I made a similar set of graphs comparing the S2K motor to the EJ25 NA motor which people perceived as "torquey", while the S2000 was "gutless".
This is one of my favorite graphs, along with the 5.0 pushrod vs 5.0 DOHC chart that showed the DOHC made more torque everywhere.
Keith Tanner said:When you're posting dyno charts, don't forget the S2000 is 400-600 lbs heavier than the Miata so you're not quite comparing apples to apples. They have different feels to them as well, the S2000 feels larger and you sit further down inside it - but I suspect they probably fit bigger people than Miatas do. I agree that you don't get to fully experience the car on the street.
An FM turbo system for the Miata is going to be roughly $4000, assuming we're taking NA or NB.
Thank you. The difference in price isn't that much but the cost of improving the Honda to the condition of the Miata would be at least that if not more.
I'm keeping a low profile here because I don't want to be dragged into doing a lot of work I don't like to do. On a car I don't particularly care for.
I'd much rather install the turbo than do the body work. How much time should I budget to do a proper job. ( I've got to at least double that because I'm old and fat)
I cross shopped theses as a daily driver a decade ago. I think he'd be nuts to buy a Miata over a S2k, but I'm a Honda guy and also love wrenching on them. I can't speak to parts availability, but for the NSX there are lots of items that are available from Japan but not the US.
The s2000 is a special car. It's really the last of the golden age Hondas and it's design and was spearheaded by Shigeru Uehara, who also lead the team that designed the original NSX as well as the one that designed the Integra Type R.
The f20c is a gem-it had the highest specific output of production cars when it was launched in 1999. Hearing Vtec "crack" at 6k RPM and then winding the engine out to 9000 is one of those gearhead zen moments. But if he doesn't love that experience, he probably won't love the s2k.
frenchyd said:Keith Tanner said:When you're posting dyno charts, don't forget the S2000 is 400-600 lbs heavier than the Miata so you're not quite comparing apples to apples. They have different feels to them as well, the S2000 feels larger and you sit further down inside it - but I suspect they probably fit bigger people than Miatas do. I agree that you don't get to fully experience the car on the street.
An FM turbo system for the Miata is going to be roughly $4000, assuming we're taking NA or NB.
Thank you. The difference in price isn't that much but the cost of improving the Honda to the condition of the Miata would be at least that if not more.
I'm keeping a low profile here because I don't want to be dragged into doing a lot of work I don't like to do. On a car I don't particularly care for.
I'd much rather install the turbo than do the body work. How much time should I budget to do a proper job. ( I've got to at least double that because I'm old and fat)
FM has a series of videos on YouTube of them installing their turbo on an NB. It would give you an idea how much time it might take you. They are good videos.
I'm trying to think of older car terms for the comparison...
TR3 vs MGA twincam? Bugeye sprite vs base MGA?
Conditions being equal, the s2000 is the faster starting platform and harder and more expensive to improve. The Miata, extremely easy to improve and keep running. You can make a Miata as fast, just takes a bit more work.
Values, time will tell, both have been going up, probably going to remain that condition is everything.
For the kid, shop on condition.
Also, I had my Miata with some suspension and stock drivetrain, and autocrossed it, as well as a turbo Miata, and also a expensive suspension/ weight reduction build. I'd focus on the suspension improvements way before digging into turning up the wick on the motor. Much more rewarding.
For me it's easy. I don't fit in a miata, I fit in a S2000. That being said, if he fits in both cars I'd buy the car that's in the best shape he can for his budget.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
With 50 years of tech, I'd expect a new 5.0 to be superior in all ways, which it is.
Well?? Its been 4 days. Has he purchased a Miata? Or is he still himming and hawing about things?
In reply to MyMiatas :
Haven't heard a word.
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