In reply to Duke :
Makes no difference if it is cheaper or not. Optics matter. It's a E36 M3ty way of doing business.
(and I doubt it's cheaper to build)
In reply to Duke :
Makes no difference if it is cheaper or not. Optics matter. It's a E36 M3ty way of doing business.
(and I doubt it's cheaper to build)
Tom1200 said:Most of us view these companies as predatory. For software; nearly 100% of the industry is using this model.......I can't wait until some clever person figures out a business model centered around the customer.
As someone that was on the manufacturing software side of things, I can tell you that's REALLY hard to compete against the subscription model. The break even point of our software was 2.2 years vs. the competitors' subscription pricing. As in, every month the customer uses their software 2.2 years after purchasing was straight up profit to the competitor. And there's enough people out there that are only focussed on this quarters' profits that having the subscription kept their C-levels happier since there was no large up-front bill.
It sucks.
In reply to Duke :
Maybe true, but the smart way to do this would be to pass those savings on to the customer and have heated seats as standard. Look, everyone! We are giving you heated seats!
What BMW has done is said berkeley You. You have to buy the heated seats but if you want to use them, you get to pay again.
They have taken what could have been a PR positive and decided to screw the pooch.
In reply to Tom Suddard :
Speaking of - does GRM still send print? I love reading print. Avants does quarterly print releases and they're beautiful magazines with very well written articles and outstanding pictures.
"Hey customers! We at BMW have decided to give EVERYONE free seat heaters on every car we build. You won't have to pay anything at all for them, unless you use them."
Yeah, that's NOT a thing.
BMW has charged every customer for the hardware, and is charging customers in cold regions additional amounts to use them.
I hate the idea of subscriptions for something like that where there's no need for it. At least with the BMW model, you get the option of not paying for something you won't use. GM is now going to force you to pay around $1500 for a 3 year subscription to OnStar when you buy a new car, for access to a bunch of stuff where there are lots of free services available to do those tasks.
That article was hilarious! Thanks for the laugh this morning. Damn glacier iguanas... they can take my outright-owned vehicle options from my cold, dead biomechatronic hands.
WonkoTheSane said:Tom1200 said:Most of us view these companies as predatory. For software; nearly 100% of the industry is using this model.......I can't wait until some clever person figures out a business model centered around the customer.
As someone that was on the manufacturing software side of things, I can tell you that's REALLY hard to compete against the subscription model. The break even point of our software was 2.2 years vs. the competitors' subscription pricing. As in, every month the customer uses their software 2.2 years after purchasing was straight up profit to the competitor. And there's enough people out there that are only focussed on this quarters' profits that having the subscription kept their C-levels happier since there was no large up-front bill.
It sucks.
That is why I don't use Adobe Lightroom because I am not about to pay a monthly subscription to a software. I would have bought it if it was a one time fee.
93EXCivic said:WonkoTheSane said:Tom1200 said:Most of us view these companies as predatory. For software; nearly 100% of the industry is using this model.......I can't wait until some clever person figures out a business model centered around the customer.
As someone that was on the manufacturing software side of things, I can tell you that's REALLY hard to compete against the subscription model. The break even point of our software was 2.2 years vs. the competitors' subscription pricing. As in, every month the customer uses their software 2.2 years after purchasing was straight up profit to the competitor. And there's enough people out there that are only focussed on this quarters' profits that having the subscription kept their C-levels happier since there was no large up-front bill.
It sucks.
That is why I don't use Adobe Lightroom because I am not about to pay a monthly subscription to a software. I would have bought it if it was a one time fee.
Our monthly Adobe bill would actually buy a fairly nice BMW (without heated seats, though).
In reply to JG Pasterjak :
Be thankful they're not Autodesk products.
There has got to be a way to bypass the controls on those seats. There will be a do it yourself video on you tube real soon now. 
I have a KardiaMobil EKG to check my heart. Well they can detect 3 more things that can go wrong --- BUT it is $10 a month to get it WITHOUT a change in the hardware. so it is just software. This is just not right. They are playing with the health and lives of real people.
Just like Boeing and the 737-MAX (how many died?) and the $57K software switch for added safety !
We need a law to stop this right away!
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:There has got to be a way to bypass the controls on those seats. There will be a do it yourself video on you tube real soon now.
Ah sure, but that would be a violation of the DCMA because you'd be defeating a device designed to protect the copyrighted code!
I'm not entirely sure what happened that makes Wall Street see so much more benefit to MRR numbers, but it's absolutely not good for consumers. Sure, today it's just heated seats. What's the harm? And sure, it's really not THAT expensive. And you could buy a lifetime subscription of course. But after a while, the lifetime subscription option will go away. There will be no "locked-in" pricing, of course, so the subscription fee will go up. And fairly soon it'll be more and more features of the car that are subscription-based. And then the final phase is that you'll not be able to actually buy the car, it'll be a monthly "mobility subscription" that you'll pay.
Next question: What happens when BMW decides that it isn't going to run those heated seats authorization servers anymore? Or the freq band gets repurposed? Do I really want anything on my car to rely on some sort of cellular-based internet connection?
And what happens when the infrastructure the cars check in with about your subscription gets "sunsetted?" (EDIT: yep, was typing while wae was posting) All too often when access is via subscription the default in instances of issues is "no access for the end user." It's easy to say that they *should* just turn on access for all cars permanently before shutting down the system, but historically I think reality is uneven at best.
The last decade has been defined in part by businesses asking "how can we turn this one-time purchase into an ongoing revenue stream?" This has not been about improving the user experience, it has been about extracting more money from the same work. Phrased clinically, that's just business, but it is up to the public to decide when as a first step, we avoid such companies as misapply this principle, and as a further step, we decide that certain practices are unacceptable and need to be banned.
Periodicals come out regularly; ongoing work, ongoing cost. I think I generally prefer the idea of software that I purchase once and which is supported in the current major version as part of that sale, but since software requires maintenance, I'm also okay with upgrade charges to move to a newer version and can make sense of a subscription model to a greater extent than for features of a car. That one probably really breaks down into installed versions that should be stable save for bugfixes and security updates and web applications which are sort of perpetually in upgrade.
Our Mini is the last new BMW product we'll have until BMW stops the concept of renting parts of my own car to me.
Javelin said:I read it as "cyber cows" not "cyber crows" and now I want an entire sci-fi thriller in this universe where the herd leader cyber cow somehow overthrows BMW.
When editing it, I first read it the same way.
wae said:Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:There has got to be a way to bypass the controls on those seats. There will be a do it yourself video on you tube real soon now.
Ah sure, but that would be a violation of the DCMA because you'd be defeating a device designed to protect the copyrighted code!
Let's see them enforce that on every shade tree mechanic in the country.
Current title: "Microtransactions in cars: An imaginative look into the future"
Proposed title: "F**k BMW and every company that tries to swindle their customers like this."
When I pay $50K+ for a car, I don't expect to be further nickle-and-dimed for features that exist on said car but aren't functional until I do so.
Having spent considerable time in Palatka, Florida; a snow drift would be God sent.
In reply to Toyman! :
I would be ok if it were a one-time, up front cost before you left the dealer. You go through a list and decide what options you want enabled, negotiate the cost and away you go. A subscription is an unnecessary annoyance...
msterbeau said:In reply to Toyman! :
I would be ok if it were a one-time, up front cost before you left the dealer. You go through a list and decide what options you want enabled, negotiate the cost and away you go.
That purchase method is available.
Slippery said:GameboyRMH said:Duke said:NEWS AT TEN:
YOU CAN BUY A PERMANENT LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION FOR A ONE-TIME FEE OF APPROXIMATELY THE SAME COST AS THE HEATED SEAT OPTION USED TO BE.
Here's Tom with the weather...
Is this transferred if the car is sold or would any subsequent owners need to re-purchase it?
How does BMW know the car has been sold?
Maybe one of the same ways Tesla knows when one of their cars has changed hands, perhaps via cloud-connected services?
f1carguy said:We need a law to stop this right away!
It is rather ironic how people always clamor for government interference to save them no matter the perceived slight. We the people can stop this super easy. Of course no one wants to be responsible for their own actions and decisions anymore.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
I'm guessing DMV records.
Manufacturers manage to notify current owners when recalls are issued, so why not deactivate subscriptions using the same info.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
So where is my agency in the damage BMW is doing if this succeeds and expands? I will be car shopping in the next year or so, and the last car I bought new was a BMW product, so I think I'm a meaningful example. When I buy something other than a BMW, is that the reasonable extent of my influence? I should be okay with whatever happens next because I have exercised my role as an engaged and active participant in the market and voted with my dollars? Is that what you're talking about with being responsible for my actions and decisions?
"*shrug* I always thought it sucked them dumping sludge in the river, so I never bought stuff from them. Too bad other folks did and the market decided sludge monsters were the right answer. I miss my family."
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