Mitigating possible rollover risk for fullsize van

I had this as part of "What van?" but now that I know what van I guess it deserves its own thread:

Here's how I made mine drive well: 

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/2006-ford-e-250/project-van-suspension-surgery/

Remember to keep weight within the wheelbase, and drive like it's a Corvair in reverse, and you'll be fine.

The problems really come when you have a bunch of weight behind the axle, and drive with the skills of a 78 year old church organist.

I have only seen them roll over when involved in a serious accident. Like Streetwise said, keep the weight over the rear axle or preferably just ahead of it and you will be fine

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

This one imo.  You put mr. soccer dad churchgoer/scoutmaster, who normally drives a dodge caravan, behind the wheel of one of these with 15 people in it and he is suddenly out of his depth.  I did a disturbing amount of stupid things in an E series van as a teenager and it was not in  danger of rolling.

Dajiban style is obviously the answer

The I beam Fords feel really weird sometimes but they’re stout and not as sketchy as they might feel. 

RedGT said:

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

This one imo.  You put mr. soccer dad churchgoer/scoutmaster, who normally drives a dodge caravan, behind the wheel of one of these with 15 people in it and he is suddenly out of his depth.  I did a disturbing amount of stupid things in an E series van as a teenager and it was not in  danger of rolling.

Haha sooo *I* am mister churchgoer who normally drives a Caravan [clone] — MY FAMILY IS GOING TO DIIIIEEEE!!!

Thanks for the replies already, I was starting to feel like it was ominous at first but already feel better. I’ll check out the build thread too

I've driven vans since before I had a license.   I've driven them hard, I've driven then fast, I've driven them sideways.   Sometimes a combination of the three.


I've never rolled one in 40 years.

Skip Barber instructors tossed those things around racetracks full of people without any problem (sometimes looking backwards while talking to us!). Just know your limits and drive with your head up and you'll be fine. 

Having owned a couple E-150 vans, I remember reading something about this and why people were doing the DRW conversions.  I'm pulling this from my long-term memory banks that have been riddled with whisky holes, but the way I remember it was that the 15 passenger vans, when full of 15 passengers, would wind up having literal tons of weight perched in the seats that were fairly high up in the overall structure of the vehicle.  That would raise the center of gravity to a level that could be potentially unsafe in certain situations.

PMRacing said:

Skip Barber instructors tossed those things around racetracks full of people without any problem (sometimes looking backwards while talking to us!). Just know your limits and drive with your head up and you'll be fine. 

I was going to say the same thing about Bondurant's instructors.  First thing you do as a student is to pile into the same van, and they take hot laps out on the track.  Pointing out how safe it is.

Keep the weight as forward as possible and as low as possible.  Keep as much between the axles as possible. 

Don't let, "the big kids" only sit in the two rear-most rows while you have all the luggage in the rear too. 

Maybe just remove the rear-most bench. 

Be diligent about the tires. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rollover/

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/investigations/2018/05/10/deadly-risks-old-15-passenger-vans-echoes-carrollton-bus-crash/529909002/

I owned a '88 E-250 extended van for 15 years.  I used it to tow my race car and "stuff".  I thought it handled fine for what it was.

That being said, I did load it by putting most of the heavy stuff as far forward as possible.  Not having any 3rd or 4th row seats helped.

My van came with 215/80X16 tires. Later model Fords got lower profile tires and I did later mount 225/75X16 tires.

It lowered the van a whole 1 1/2 inches! The higher engine rpms at highway speed didn't affect MPG's as the reduced aero drag due to the lowering seemed to offset that.  Only on a big box on wheels would this happen.

Some 20 years ago there was a media scare about extended van stability, and as a result a few vendors offered dual rear wheel kits.

It appears some are still available. 

But as mentioned, it's a bit overblown.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/13699_15-passenger_van_factsheet_english_060418_v3a_tag.pdf

https://www.saferidenews.com/2018/08/nhtsa-clarifies-15-passenger-van-regulations/

I mean, yeah, they have a lot of weight up high and may not be as subject to state DOT inspections as other commercial vehicles (which may have similar CG/loading characteristics).  You are going to see increased risks. There are reasons that they wont let them be used for school transportation (for the most part).

I know I saw an article somewhere comparing the crashability/outcomes of Vans and Trucks  as well as passenger cars...   Vans didnt come off looking very good if I recall correctly. 

Towing with one has even more specific concerns, see https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772832  I was at competition that year. We had some mandatory lessons on towing safety afterwards. 15 Passenger will have the WORST control characteristics of anything with the capacity, so take extra care!

Most of making it as safe as you can is going to revolve around the following:

• Tire Age/health and Pressure
• Suspension health (shocks, bushings, balljoints)
• Loading - Keep it low and centeral whenever possible and dont overload.
• Towing - Weight distribution(hitch and loading the trailer), sway control, dont overload the van and tow at the same time...  Seriously, put the extra money into a good non-basic hitch. 

Tom Suddard said:

Here's how I made mine drive well: 

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/2006-ford-e-250/project-van-suspension-surgery/

Can confirm, having not only driven this van, but being behind it on the Tail of the Dragon. 

In reply to Apexcarver :

I've read that one reason towing with the extended body vans can be tricky is due to how far from the axle the hitch ball is.  Years ago I saw an interesting hitch mounted under a Ford extended van that had the receiver mounted on a curved rail, effectively moving the pivot to above or forward of the rear axle - sort of like a 5th wheel.  But I've had trouble finding info about them.

I honestly wouldn't do anything. Although if effort and material were free i'd exocage it for the luls. 

Maybe its my years of driving 45' buses on squishy air suspensions, but I never found my E350 to feel tippy.  Heck, I drifted it on dry pavement once.

Deleted earlier post, wrong van thread at first. 

Okay so im glad you mentioned smaller tires, I saw the E450 parked beside it today was sitting noticeably lower and it was just from smaller tires. Is there a particularly good alternate smaller size and even a wider one too? Current rubber is 265/75/16

regarding dual wheel conversion: I heard from a friend that you can just put longer studs and dually wheels. Truth?

I was an idiot in three different Samurais all of which went from 100% factory to spring-over lift  and never even had a hint of rolling.

OTOH, I took my 2wd 1988 Ranger in Reverse as fast as it would go and whipped the wheel to the right as I put in the clutch and almost rolled it. 
 

Everything is safe. Everything is dangerous. 

In reply to P3PPY :

Honestly, having been in your position with E-350 rollover fears, I came to the conclusion that it wasn't enough of a concern. The odds are not against you. And it doesn't hurt that you're "on a mission from God!".

As far as tires, my guess is that you keep them inflated with enough air to maintain sidewall strength and/or drop down a size to firm up any sidewall squishiness and just drive it. With millions of these vans with their inside walls loaded with heavy shelving and tools on the roads, I just never see any rolled over. 

Okay so when I’m out and about I see these conversion full size vans that seem to be so much lower. What gives?? What did they do differently that makes them sit so much lower? And it’s not just the ground effects — they’re like ACTUALLY lower

Tire sizes. I dropped the tire size on my B250 van to 245/60/15. If i ever get wider wheels it'll go to 265/50 and 295/50/15.  But, i also need to install taller rear end gears now. Worth it? Heck yes, I hated driving that thing with stock tire height.  Especially with all the flares and body kit looking stuff. At stock height it was almost like you took the rubber envelope bit  off of a hovercraft and stuck wheels under it instead. It looked wrong.