Modifying a structural oil pan

What about epoxy instead of welding? I'm talking the 3m stuff used to put structural aluminum sheets together.

Robbie said:

What about epoxy instead of welding? I'm talking the 3m stuff used to put structural aluminum sheets together.

Any heat or long term exposure to oil issues with that stuff????

dean1484 said:

Robbie said:

What about epoxy instead of welding? I'm talking the 3m stuff used to put structural aluminum sheets together.

Any heat or long term exposure to oil issues with that stuff????

yes please. edumacate me. this sounds damn near perfect for a couple of things i need to do, thereby amortizing the cost. 

I busted a corner off of the oil pan on my LS1 (also cast aluminum) when I was installing a baffle last spring because I'm an idiot and missed a piece of old gasket before torquing it down. Since F body oil pans are apparently crazy expensive, I had a guy I know from work TIG it back together for me. Seems to be holding up just fine and doesn't leak or anything. I just cleaned the E36 M3 out of it with carb cleaner. 

Just a reminder....  Dont weld after using the chlorinated carb cleaner.  It makes phosgene gas.

Bad.

One book I have suggests 3m scotch weld 9323 for joining aluminum honeycomb panels to make race car chassis, and mixing in something inert but of controlled diameter (like sand) so the joint stays tight without squeezing out all of the epoxy (optimal layer of epoxy is like .01 inch or something).

But I would think having more is ok for something less uniform than two pieces of sheet.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

Yes, should have specified non-chlorinated. I can't stand how bad the chlorinated stuff stinks anyway. 

Robbie said:

One book I have suggests 3m scotch weld 9323 for joining aluminum honeycomb panels to make race car chassis, and mixing in something inert but of controlled diameter (like sand) so the joint stays tight without squeezing out all of the epoxy (optimal layer of epoxy is like .01 inch or something).

But I would think having more is ok for something less uniform than two pieces of sheet.

How does it hold up to 250 degrees, oil, etc? 

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

looks like it should be fine up to 150deg C.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.3m.com/3M/en_NG/company-mea/all-3m-products/~/3M-Scotch-Weld-Epoxy-Adhesive-9323-B-A-1L-Kit-1%3FN%3D5002385%2B8709324%2B8709962%2B8710645%2B8710797%2B8711017%2B8711736%2B8712771%2B3292000134%26rt%3Drud&ved=0ahUKEwioxbX4hJzYAhWE1IMKHbpJCLMQFghcMAA&usg=AOvVaw0bjksFbvzUdxNKYUqtO4w7

Not sure the linking is working from my phone but Google pulls up the data sheet from 3m.

How about asking your roll bar guru for a welding Christmas present?  Or  can you remove the offending 1 inch (no pun intended) from the crossmember and weld in some L channel?

The side-bolts look way to far down to be main-cap cross bolts? What do they screw into?

Dirtydog said:

How about asking your roll bar guru for a welding Christmas present?  Or  can you remove the offending 1 inch (no pun intended) from the crossmember and weld in some L channel?

My TIG is all tuned up and ready to go. Just finished fabricating a new aluminum oil pan for my project...

Dirtydog said:

How about asking your roll bar guru for a welding Christmas present?  Or  can you remove the offending 1 inch (no pun intended) from the crossmember and weld in some L channel?

This is step 1. But im looking ahead at ALL options, from easy to "what the berkeley am i thinking "

Nohome: dunno haven't pulled it, but from what ive read on the internet, they go to the mains.

stafford1500 said:

Dirtydog said:

How about asking your roll bar guru for a welding Christmas present?  Or  can you remove the offending 1 inch (no pun intended) from the crossmember and weld in some L channel?

My TIG is all tuned up and ready to go. Just finished fabricating a new aluminum oil pan for my project...

I actually got you a Christmas present today that isnt beer. But i can supply a six pack.....

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

Sweet

tuna55 said:

jstand said:

oldopelguy said:

Welding aluminum is no big deal, but welding oil soaked aluminum is about as miserable as welding can get. If you can start out with a brand new pan you will have much better results for both strength and leakage.

 

If you can't go new (or even if you do go new), try to find someone with an industrial oven that can bake it for several hours to try to remove as much of the oil as possible. 

When I worked for a company that instrumented engine components, the first step was always to bake the parts (new or used) to get rid of any oils in the metal so adhesives would bond reliably.

Indeed my materials guy suggested baking it at low temperatures, he said 400F for four hours, then weld. It worked for my bellhousing.

We always tried to bake it hotter than the cure temp for the adhesive, but the 400 degree range was typical. The bake was dependent on the part, how dirty it was, if it was used, and the material.

We would clean it with IPA or other cleaner, wipe it down, bake, then clean and wipe. We’d repeat the process until the wipe down didn’t have any more oil on the cleaning rag. 

NOHOME said:

The side-bolts look way to far down to be main-cap cross bolts? What do they screw into?

 

They do go in the area of the mains.  It's a little weird.

What 3.4 is this and does it vary from the fbody 3.4. Im pretty sire the fbodys use a steel pan

dean1484 said:

I say go for it.  Just put back the same thickness of material in the areas that are modified.  Get sone one that has some experience with welding aluminum and I would not worry about it.  The only issue I would have is if it is cast alu and not sheet.  That may be an issue with respect to welding.  Better look in to that before you start cutting.  One of my guys at work is a licensed welder and he would know the answer.  I will ask him tomorrow and report back.

 

 

Spoke to my employee and he said no problem.  Started mumbling about cleaning it really good etc but basically not a problem. Pre heating the pieces makes it easier to weld.  

In reply to dean1484 :

Thank you, and thank him for me

Everyone else: y'all are the reason why this is the only forum/social outlet i go to. Thank you all. Its definitely appreciated. 

Opti: fwd 3400 is radically different from the rwd 3.4 no way to interchange much of anything. 

 My rwd block pan looks kinda SBCish and would fit No Problimo,  My engine kinda Hangs in space so I could rock that Pan you have, 90% finished on rebuild. rainy cold day's make me want to stay inside, so maybe Tomorrow / Saturday we'll give her a Spin.

In reply to GTXVette :

i had looked at that, as the rwd pans are readily available. bolt pattern is different, as well as no way for the cross bolted mains. so, thanks for the offer but i cant realistically make it work with the tools and talent that i have access to. 

A mapp torch will work to burn off the oil. 

A mapp torch will work to turn it into a puddle too. 

In fact, you can "weld" aluminum with a mapp torch. 

I once cut 2 2.8l timing covers in half and "welded" them back together with an O/A torch and AL rods from TSC. 

Although, I don't recommend doing so without practice. 

I have a package of that HF "Alumaweld" that I've been wanting to play with, but I bet that stuff would work for this too. 

If you do use a mapp torch the safe bet is drawing a line with a 400° temp-stick (actually, one at the edge and one and inch or so back) and heat from the back side slowly. 

Keep the torch moving across the whole area to avoid hot spots and you should be fine. 

Alternatively, you could scan it occasionally with an IR thermometer.

Much over 400° and you're flirting with aluminum's plastic state, and you don't want that. 

When heating aluminum for forging processes, it goes from ideal forging temperature to molten within seconds, so be careful.