I found this video on a Mustang forum comparing the BRZ and Mustang V-6 Performance Package to see which is the better driver's car. Randy Pobst gets behind the wheel of both for a hot lap around Willow Springs, so even if you hate MT, you should at least stick around for that (at 6:30).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3hgleEOXA&feature=player_embedded
Mind the YouT00b derp in the comments section...
That's pretty sweet and good find. The BRZ is the first car I have really wanted in a long time
Is there a video comparing the BRZ to FR-S? I keep hearing ahh the BRZ does this different then the FR-S etc. And I would love to see a magazine (esp. if it's name was Grassroots Motorsports 
) do a review.
I hate to admit it but I find the BRZ and FR-S styling REALLY boring but I hope it succeeds cause the world needs more sports cars that focus on handling over power.
Also the youtube comment section makes me lose faith in humanity.
Nice comparison. I love how small the BRZ looks, especially in comparison to the Mustang.
Really sounds like if you live near a nice twisty mountain road the BRZ is the easy choice here. Out in the midwest though I bet the Mustang would be the better choice for our long, straight roads, and more comfortable on a daily basis.
93EXCivic wrote: Is there a video comparing the BRZ to FR-S? I keep hearing ahh the BRZ does this different then the FR-S etc. And I would love to see a magazine (esp. if it's name was Grassroots Motorsports
I also want to see the GRM head-to-head comparo.
ShadowSix wrote:93EXCivic wrote: Is there a video comparing the BRZ to FR-S? I keep hearing ahh the BRZ does this different then the FR-S etc. And I would love to see a magazine (esp. if it's name was Grassroots MotorsportsI also want to see the GRM head-to-head comparo.
Me too - I could have written that copy without ever having seen either vehicle. It's hard to know if it's true or bs, I trust the GRM guys to be honest when they talk about objective things like feel or handling. I don't trust MT guys, especially when they balk at the live axle still.
I still find it amazing that the V6 mustang is more powerful than the Shelby GT350.. and is certainly a LOT more powerful than the 5.0 Fox bodies of old
I just red EVO's review of the BRZ and they were totally unimpressed with it. The conclusion, over and over again, was that the car just didn't have enough power to be any fun. They compared it head-to-head with a Miata, which they liked much better, so it's not just an obsession with power, or a lack of understanding the "slow car fast" philosophy, either.
tuna55 wrote: Me too - I could have written that copy without ever having seen either vehicle. It's hard to know if it's true or bs, I trust the GRM guys to be honest when they talk about objective things like feel or handling. I don't trust MT guys, especially when they balk at the live axle still.
Do you disagree with Randy's assessments? Not attacking you, just curious because I ASSumed he'd be more objective than the MT guy and, since I own a 2013 V-6 Performance Package Mustang, I can can concur with much of what he said about it. My biggest gripe, like what Randy said, is that the the V-6PP* is severely underdamped even with the GT struts/shocks. They're too floaty. It's a little unnerving in corners because it feels like the car is doing something it shouldn't when it's actually tracking just fine. Koni yellows will be my first or second mod along with 18" wheels for daily driving.
Other than that, the new Mustang is a lot of fun. It's a hammer compared to the BRZ's scalpel, but it's a surprisingly agile hammer, and damned quick with the new sixxer.
*(Huh, huh, I said PP, huh, huh)
I've not driven the V6 Mustang, but I drove the V8 for the first time a few weeks ago. It feels large and very softly sprung. I came away from the test drive feeling like most of time it would be pretty dull to drive because it revealed so little about what's actually happening as I went around corners. Then occasionally, i'm sure it would get really exiting-- like when turning into a high speed corner after a long straight.
The BRZ looks like fun. It's not hard for me to believe that the BRZ is the better drivers car.
I thought the brz/frs came with terrible tires stock, does the track pack v6 come with decent tires? Equal tires might narrow the gap a bit. I don't see how it doesn't have enough power to be fun, it's as fast or faster than many of the hot 80/90s cars that everyone loves here. I think we're all just getting spoiled by 250+hp family sedans.
RexSeven wrote:tuna55 wrote: Me too - I could have written that copy without ever having seen either vehicle. It's hard to know if it's true or bs, I trust the GRM guys to be honest when they talk about objective things like feel or handling. I don't trust MT guys, especially when they balk at the live axle still.Do you disagree with Randy's assessments? Not attacking you, just curious because I ASSumed he'd be more objective than the MT guy and, since I own a 2013 V-6 Performance Package Mustang, I can can concur with much of what he said about it. My biggest gripe, like what Randy said, is that the the V-6PP* is severely underdamped even with the GT struts/shocks. They're too floaty. It's a little unnerving in corners because it feels like the car is doing something it shouldn't when it's actually tracking just fine. Koni yellows will be my first or second mod along with 18" wheels for daily driving. Other than that, the new Mustang is a lot of fun. It's a hammer compared to the BRZ's scalpel, but it's a surprisingly agile hammer, and damned quick with the new sixxer. *(Huh, huh, I said PP, huh, huh)
I have driven neither, so I can neither agree nor disagree, but I still hold any comments made in a MT comparison to be highly suspect.
In reply to tuna55:
I feel like Randy Pobst is probably fairly objective.
I can see with some really good tyres, konis, better bushings, and maybe some swaybars to get rid of some of that body lean.. the V6 mustang could be a real track weapon
RexSeven wrote: Do you disagree with Randy's assessments? Not attacking you, just curious because I ASSumed he'd be more objective than the MT guy and, since I own a 2013 V-6 Performance Package Mustang, I can can concur with much of what he said about it. My biggest gripe, like what Randy said, is that the the V-6PP* is severely underdamped even with the GT struts/shocks. They're too floaty. It's a little unnerving in corners because it feels like the car is doing something it shouldn't when it's actually tracking just fine. Koni yellows will be my first or second mod along with 18" wheels for daily driving. Other than that, the new Mustang is a lot of fun. It's a hammer compared to the BRZ's scalpel, but it's a surprisingly agile hammer, and damned quick with the new sixxer. *(Huh, huh, I said PP, huh, huh)
The soft dampers on the Mustang are Ford's concession to ride comfort for the masses. I always had the sense that mine (05GT) just sort of pogo'd around on the stock shocks. I swapped in Tokico adjustables at about 50k without changing springs and the difference was night and day. You'll be surprised how much better a good set of dampers will make that car. Better sway bars also helped mine immensely, but you've probably got comparable bars from the factory with the performance package.
In stock form there always components or setups that limit or compromise a car. That sounds true for both of those tested.
I have an 05 GT as well and can say that swapping out all the suspension makes it into a different car. Friend of mine has a 2011GT bone stock and it's like driving a really fast waterbed. Soft springs, horrible dampers and 235 18's...
My watts link will be here next week from Strano 
I was more intrigued by the fact that the IS350 comes with a 6spd down there...
AutoXR wrote: I have an 05 GT as well and can say that swapping out all the suspension makes it into a different car.
This statement alone makes me not want a mustang.
"It handles well, after you replace EVERYTHING."
In reply to mazdeuce:
Depends what you're used to. People praise the new GT, and it is a great all around car. But for lapping days and autocross duty it needs better dampening. I have yet to own a car that I didn't toss out the stock suspension for a well thought out aftermarket alternative From a civic SIR to an E36 M3). I have 0 problem keeping up with and passing the 2 Elises in my club on the track, E46's M3's...etc. All depends on your plans for the car and what you want out of it. Except for wheels my car is setup to run ESP. Stock suspensions always have crap loads of understeer dialed in to keep the driver safe. 2 Days after we got a 997 the front arms came off in favor of GT3 units and the springs were swapped...again, all depends on what you want.
I know what you mean, I was just being a bit silly.
Two years ago when my wife was car shopping she drove a GT and came away with the wallowy impression as well. She didn't want to buy a car and start swapping things out, she thought that was idiotic. It does seem that the mustang community, maybe more than any other, is very comfortable with the idea that swapping out the whole of the factory suspension is normal.
mazdeuce wrote: I know what you mean, I was just being a bit silly. Two years ago when my wife was car shopping she drove a GT and came away with the wallowy impression as well. She didn't want to buy a car and start swapping things out, she thought that was idiotic. It does seem that the mustang community, maybe more than any other, is very comfortable with the idea that swapping out the whole of the factory suspension is normal.
It is normal because where can you "bolt-on" a full on drag style suspension to a completely different RR setup and not cut up the entire car to make it work. Plus it's a pseudo CUV bone stock.
Watched the whole vid, liked it. Surprised the lap difference wasnt higher. I thought the difference in the body motions shown from inside the cockpit was the most useful difference you could see.
93EXCivic wrote: Also the youtube comment section makes me lose faith in humanity.
Except those people aren't humans.
but they are still breeding
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