MR2 Experts: Compare and contrast the engine swap options?

You guys convinced me that an IS300 is not the way to go for autoX/track use. I'm still not getting a BMW (they are great, I don't have the money or space to keep one up at the moment), and reading the RX-8 engine threads made my wallet scream like a stuck pig and run and hide in the crawl space.

I know we have a LOT of MR2 knowledge, so I was wondering if someone can give me the rundown on the common swap options for the SW20 (Second Gen) MR2.

Is it a mistake starting with an non-turbo car if I plan to eventually do a swap? What if I hate t-tops?

I like the sound of these V6 (2GR-FE~280 hp) swaps people are doing, but they seem like a ton of work! If I buy a 130 hp 5S-FE car this fall, and want to add moderate power (say, 180 hp) later, is there a cheaper, easier (4-cylinder, maybe?) swap I can do for a moderate power bump? I am not really at a skill level where I should be driving a 280 hp, 2700# car around a race track anyway...

I have NO interest in BIIIIG POOOWER with this car, I don't ever want 600 RWHP, etc. Is just ponying up the dough for a factory turbo car still going to be my best bet even if I never want to build a huge power car?

I've been all over mr2oc.com, it's a really awesome site, with some real knowledge and a minimum of standard car forum DB's (like GRM in that respect) but it is a MONSTROUS amount of info to wade through when I'm not even sure what questions to ask. Please let me know if there is a FAQ or something I should look at.

What about the 2ZZ-GE from a 7th-gen Celica? 180 hp, if there's a transmission that will make it work.

Though my personal belief is that the correct engine swap for this car is an LS4.

Are you set on a SW-20? You should check out a MR-S, a better car in every aspect especially if you are looking to track it. A MR-S with a 2ZZ is what my dreams are made of.

I'm not really a convertible fan, I'd like a steel roof over my head. Since Columbus is the world capital of texting-while-driving undergraduates that's probably non-negotiable.

I'll look into the 2ZZ-GE, this is what came in the "hot" version of the Matrix too, no? Should be easy-ish to source a manual donor car I would think...

Do you want to do a swap? Because I'd think it'd work out cheaper if you just bought a turbo instead.

In reply to nokincy:

Actually, I wrote the above response, then thought about it. I wonder if the MR-S is actually less crash-worthy than the bigger, but older SW20. On the one hand the MR-S is ten years newer, ten years that saw a lot of crash protection advances, but on the other hand the SW20 can be had with a full steel roof, and is a notch or two bigger.

The idea of a 180 hp Spyder certainly sounds like fun.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

Not really. I'm used to lego-difficulty level Honda swaps, so I'm down for it if I have to, but I don't want to do a swap. I think you are probably right about the Turbo being the cheaper platform to start of with.

I guess I look at the turbo SW20 and I see a car that is a bit more expensive and complicated than I really want, then I look at the non-turbo and I see a fairly heavy car for 130 hp to be pushing around.

I vote get a factory turbo car and mod it or swap in a 6 cyl from a camry, solara es300 etc. IMHO a 2zzge is not the right swap for a sw20, great for a spyder or (maybe greater) for a aw11 but not for a sw20. You should consider a 2zz swap in a aw11, that satisfies your hardtop needs and keeps weight low, is unique, and with a 2zz/c60 six speed an aw11 is a hilarious weapon.

Ford BDA?

carbon hit the nail on the head. If you want an SW20 with more than a 5S-FE, just buy a factory turbo car. If you want a swap and look forward to doing one, go for it. A stock V-6 would be my personal swap choice for reliability, torque, and a sweet sound.

An AW11 first-gen or ZZW30 Spyder are better candidates for four-cylinder swapping (especially ZZ-family) IMO due to the weight.

The factory turbo cars also came with bigger brakes and some other differences. Just buy a Turbo if it's in the budget. Keep it stock, and it might even be worth more in a few years

Go turbo car IF you can find a good one (complete with no, or little "kid" wear)

5SFE is 130hp and 145#/ft... MOST of the 3SGE of the period are more hp (25) and a bit less torque (5-10 #/ft)

and then there is this - http://www.meisners.net/Camry/WebSite/5sfeTurbo%202.pdf

http://5sfeturbo.com/

If you don't want T-Tops then the options are limited on the turbo side. There are hard top turbos out there but they are either very rare or very ragged on. If they are good, they command a premium. (8-10K typically)

There is the beams option for NA power. That is about 200HP.

You can find cleaner cars out there but they are not cheap. $7-10K typically if they are clean and original.

In reply to oldeskewltoy:

The "kid" wear seems like a big problem with these cars. It seems like clean Turbo SW20's that have none of the tell-tale signs are way outside my price range.

I have to say the ZZW30 is looking better the more I look at it. I didn't realize how light it is. Unfortunately there is no crashworthiness info about the car, but it is a Toyota made in this millenium, how bad can it be? There is also a hard dog roll bar made for it.

keep in mind zzw30s are less practical than either of the other bodystyles. Frunk is small and there is no trunk. Mine's been a great little car.

I wouldn't worry about crashing too much, if you are going to die you are going to die no reason to be paranoid. SW20 isn't known for being a safe car anyways and used to have a reputation as a widowmaker.

The MR-S is a far superior car if you are starting with a non turbo. Any swap will get you further, a turbo build will flow much more, the car is lighter by a mile, aftermarket is far more plentiful, the cars are of much higher quality, the 2ZZ is a excellent engine either supercharged or turbo.

If you are buying ANY MR2 for practicality you are going the wrong car.

Turbo MR2s have been going way up in price. I tried to buy a few of them and failed to people paying $1000s more even when I so called "sealed the deal". I ended up importing a Skyline instead and buying a car in Japan, paying customs fees, and importing it was CHEAPER than buying a marked up 150k miles MR2 Turbo.

MK3 on the other hand i've been seeing 2ZZ swapped cars sell for $5000 occasionally. I offers up to $7500 on two turbo MR2s that had issues, piqued the owners interest, only for someone else to offer more. These cars had paint issues, engine issues, etc. They ran but needed TLC.

If I wanted MR2 I would either pick up a AW11 and do a serious resto + 4AGTE build or pick up a already swapped 2ZZ MK3 car and go to the Lotus Elise forums and pick up that supercharger kit a boardmember there sells for Elises that he would modify for Mr2s or turbo it. Those are all paths to similar weight (2100-2300lbs) and 300hp on like a GTRS turbo or that supercharger.

From what you are saying, no big power, etc. The W30 with 2ZZ swap is the best bet. The sky is the limit with that car for future upgrades as well.

I have had the same thought as you regarding the MR2 engine options. The best choice for an engine swap for 180hp, IMO, is the 3sge that bolts right in. It was available in the euro/japanese sw20. The third gen non-beams version with regular bolt-ons would be my choice as the BEAMS gets prcier for not much more power. That is my plan down the line, but I am more interested in a finding a cherry weekend car for restomod and some auto-x than a dedicated track car. If you go with wth spyder, get a baffled oil pain and get rid of the pre-cats especially in a 200-02 car. However, 2zz swapped cars are almost the same price, so may as well buy the car done. The question becomes if you are doing a spyder, why not a turbo miata?

oldeskewltoy wrote: Go turbo car **IF** you can find a good one (complete with no, or little "kid" wear)

This. They are out there, but they're few and far between. I looked at a couple of 'orrible ones and then found two very clean ones in succession. Ended up buying the second one (63k miles from new is hard to argue with) but I'm still dealing with a lot of the issues from a long layup with the car.

I will be adding some bolt ones but it's all high quality stuff and I'm keeping the original bits in the shed so I can return it to stock if I want to.

However, as kanaric pointed out if you want a clean turbo you have to be willing to pay for it. There's a lot of badly running junk out there and they're not worth the hassle IMHO.

Get the MK3 if you want a good, easy, cheap track car.

That said, what's wrong with a BMW? It's not going to cost more, it's fun, and it's way more practical. No mid-engined fun, but you should take another look for sure. I also don't understand the "no space" part. An e30 or E36 is smaller than an IS300...

mr2peak wrote: That said, what's wrong with a BMW? It's not going to cost more, it's fun, and it's way more practical. No mid-engined fun, but you should take another look for sure. I also don't understand the "no space" part. An e30 or E36 is smaller than an IS300...

Agreed. What do BMW's need that is such a pain in the ass? There is nothing you would ever have to do that would be more difficult than a MR2 timing belt, let alone an engine swap like you are talking about!!!

SlickDizzy wrote:

mr2peak wrote: That said, what's wrong with a BMW? It's not going to cost more, it's fun, and it's way more practical. No mid-engined fun, but you should take another look for sure. I also don't understand the "no space" part. An e30 or E36 is smaller than an IS300...

Agreed. What do BMW's need that is such a pain in the ass? There is nothing you would ever have to do that would be more difficult than a MR2 timing belt, let alone an engine swap like you are talking about!!!

While I love mr2's, I have to wonder the same thing and it was why I mentioned a turbo miata. When I think track car, I always think fairly common car so that parts are easily sourced or replaceable. Mr2 of any gen seems too rare to be cost effective as a serious track car. Sn95 mustang, bmw, or miata would be my choice for that. Street use and auto-x are different.

From the perspective of a mr2 owner who has a e36m3load of mx5 experience, I think the answer to why not a miata, is specialness. The mr2 takes time to develop a relationship with, whereas the miata you can just hop in and flog. The mr feels special every time you drive it, the miata doesnt. No offense to mx5 owners, I really like the platform, aftermarket support and community.

Yeah, the thing with BMWs is just that I don't want to spend that much time/money working on a car right now. I haven't got a garage here, and my brother's shop is 70 miles away. I know, I know, you had an E46 M3 that you tracked every weekend for ten years and put 300,000 miles on and it never needed anything but oil changes and new windshield wiper blades. I've had an E30 and an E34, and I like BMWs, but I don't want another right now.

As far as the Miata goes, carbon is on the money. Every autocross in the country has 67 Miatas, obviously there's a good reason for that, but I kind of like to do my own thing.

That said, I may still end up with another Miata (a Miata deal that fell through is what started this search), it really is the "easy button," but I am interested in this 2ZZ-GE ZZW30 idea people are tossing around. A quick look around the internets reveals that they seem to do alright in a crash too! Woo Toyota engineering!

aw11 with a beams 3sge = light, fun, revvy, reliable, efficient, practical, less expensive

Is the RWD BEAMS motor the same as the FWD one?