MR2 vs NA Miata

I have owned and loved a couple of Miatas but have never driven or even sat in a first gen MR2.

How do they compare for spirited street driving, interior room for a 6 footer, reliability?

There is a fine looking 86 MR2 for sale locally 120,000 mile and I can believe what my beater NA is currently worth.

Other than the engine being in the wrong place, they're remarkably similar in specification from what I remember. I don't know much about them other than that the handling was maybe not as flattering to drivers as the Miata, and they ate rear tires. Jim Pettingill (sorry if I spelled that wrong, Jim) has run one for years and is on this forum occasionally, hopefully he'll jump in. The first time I had my '85 CRX at the track, he was there with the MR2 and we were posting extremely similar times.

AW11 MR2s are cavernous inside compared to an NA Miata. Steering is a bit more numb and slow, but the motors feel similar. The early MR2s had some of the best ergonomics for the widest variety of drivers of any car of the era as far as I'm concerned.

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

I've owned several na Miatas, and an either 86 or 87 mr2, I can't remember. I personally hated the ergonomics of the Toyota, while I just "fit" perfectly in a Miata.  I think my main problem was just being used to the angle of the steering wheel.  I also hated the mr2 shifter.  Felt like stirring a bag of antlers compared to the Miata.  Other than that, the mr2 was a hoot to drive, until a lady in a minivan backed out of the driveway in front of me and totalled it.  I'd still go for a Miata over another mr2, though.  YMMV.

I've owned about 6 NA Miatas.  I really miss the 94 R.  I recently acquired an AW11 MR2 from a forum member.  I haven't driven it enough miles to be certain, but it really does feel Miata like and tossable at times.  No shifter is as good as Miata, so I can't complain about that.  I do have an issue with the seating position, but that is probably related to fitting in a race seat. 

As a street car the MR2 is great.  As a track car, it's heavy compared to a Miata.  My 89 has a listed weight of about 2350 with sunroof.  Also, the 87 - 89 cars  had "improvements" for the street that make them less desirable as track cars.  These were mostly brakes.  Because of the tendency to get "snap oversteer" in the 85s (mostly dumb drivers getting in over their heads and lifting suddenly mid corner, or hitting the brakes), Toyota dropped the rear sway bar that continued for the rest of the world, went to larger brake discs (that helped stop rotor warping), and added a rear brake proportioning valve that drastically reduced rear brake pressure during "heavy braking".  In actuality, this happens in mild braking and results in front wheel lockup that really kills times.  Various fixes include running different pad frictions front and rear, installing a brake balance device on the front circuit so you can dial back the front brakes, or gutting the proportioning valve.  I know at our track in Grand Junction I was giving up big chunks of time every lap, having to brake totally in a straight line and way early.  Trail braking was out of the question.  With properly balanced brakes I could probably have immediately cut 2 full seconds off my times.  For a track car, try to find an 85.

Also, there is no equivalent of Flyin' Miata in the MR2 world, there isn't much available in the aftermarket to tweak the engine without getting really serious.  You can pick up maybe 10 hp with intake and exhaust mods, but beyond that you either put in a JDM 20 valve engine or go to cams, head work, and turbos, and there isn't any real bolt-on stuff out there that I know of.  Maybe other can provide more info.  The MR2 would really benefit from about 180 - 200 whp.  Finding a good, unmolested 88 or 89 supercharged MR2 is getting difficult.

But I love my 89 for the street.  I've had it 22 years and plan to keep it forever.  Lots of room in the two trunks, great gas mileage, great handling in general ( all new poly bushings and new Koni yellows helped a lot), and Toyota reliability.  But if you plan to race one, plan on having to mess with the brakes, have few easy power mods and know you'll be at least 200 pounds overweight compared to a Miata.

I have no experience with the AW11, but I absolutely love the ZZW30 MR2 Spyder/MR-S. Honestly, stock vs. stock, I'd take the MR-S over a Miata any day, and that's coming from a Miata owner.

I've had 5 NA Miatae and 2 AW11s.  It would be like asking me to pick one of my children as my "favorite".  They are remarkably similar, yet different.  MR2 is roomier for sure and has great ergonomics.  Dead nuts reliable.  As noted, they handle a bit different, but they're still both fun.  If you pass on that MR2, send the link to me...seriously.

NickD said:

I have no experience with the AW11, but I absolutely love the ZZW30 MR2 Spyder/MR-S. Honestly, stock vs. stock, I'd take the MR-S over a Miata any day, and that's coming from a Miata owner.

The MRS is actually lighter than the AWII. Nutty I know. Chasing lightness may have killed it's sales. No actual storage for anything hurts first impressions on the showroom floor. I honestly don't find them that attractive either. I would still buy one if it came up cheap. :-) 

I had an 87 MR2 for rallycross and an 88 MR2 supercharged that I got a stupid good deal on, loved them both.  I have a 90 Miata at the moment and would gladly trade for another MR2, I loved them so much.

I've spent time and money in both and would take an AW11 any day of the week over a Miata.

I think my criticisms of the Miata are nearly 1:1 Chris Harris' in this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=36whvegFIqg

The cockpit in the AW11 is very forward and visibility is excellent. You don't have to sit on the floor to clear a helmet. The OEM steering wheel in the zenki AW11 is also absolutely perfect in diameter and rim thickness.

The 4A-GE is an amazingly lively powerplant compared to the B6 or BP. It sounds so good and is so rev happy and makes great power. The C series gearbox is a cornucopia of available ratios, final drives, and LSDs. It does suck to shift, though. Really.

The steering in the AW11 is light and direct and the front end response is instant. It doesn't feel like the chassis shifts first and then changes direction.

fastoldfart said:

I have owned and loved a couple of Miatas but have never driven or even sat in a first gen MR2.

How do they compare for spirited street driving, interior room for a 6 footer, reliability?

There is a fine looking 86 MR2 for sale locally 120,000 mile and I can believe what my beater NA is currently worth.

I've been driving an '85 MR2 for something like eighteen years.  I love driving it.  It is so choice.  If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

I would not trade my AW11 for a similar Miata.  It's not that I dislike the Miata; I don't have enough experience in one to dislike it.  But the AW11 (Toyota's chassis code for first-gen MR2s, 1985-1989 model year) speaks to me in ways the Miata does not.

The '85 and '86 are generally referred to as Mk1a by the community.  '87-'89 are Mk1b.  The '85 got a rear sway bar, removed for '86, as Jim said.  Hardly a deal-breaker.  The Mk1b cars had revised rear suspension that numbed the handling somewhat.  Brake rotors also got larger on the Mk1b, and the interior (door panels and center console, primarily) were revised as well.  My preference is for the Mk1a with larger Mk1b brakes.  I like the sharp handling, and the interior has more character.

Most of these cars have sunroofs.  They eat into headroom a little.  Mk1b also offered a T-top version (mandatory on supercharged cars in the US) that is good on headroom but a little heavier and more prone to leaking if not looked after.  Hardtops are harder to find and are sought after by some people.

Reliability is astonishing.  They're Toyotas, built in a time of legendary QDR.  My car is on its original cooling system - hoses, radiator, and all are the same parts the car left the factory with.  Same for the fuel pump and hoses.  Care for them and they will care for you.

Keith Tanner said:

Other than the engine being in the wrong place, they're remarkably similar in specification from what I remember. I don't know much about them other than that the handling was maybe not as flattering to drivers as the Miata, and they ate rear tires.

"Handling not as flattering to drivers" is a fair description.  The handling is a thing of beauty in spirited street driving, but it is possible to find and exceed the limits.  Slow in, fast out, and all that.  Just be prudent, work your way up until you and the car get to know each other.

The term "snap oversteer" is inapplicable to an AW11 unless you are an absolute savage.  In that case, turn in your license and take the bus.

An AW11 will not eat rear tires unless something is very wrong or you're making unlikely amounts of power.  The SW20 is another story - and a very different car from both the Miata and the AW11.

JG Pasterjak said:

AW11 MR2s are cavernous inside compared to an NA Miata. Steering is a bit more numb and slow, but the motors feel similar. The early MR2s had some of the best ergonomics for the widest variety of drivers of any car of the era as far as I'm concerned.

I do love the ergos.  These cars fit like the proverbial glove.  Outward visibility is outstanding.

Steering can also be improved with a Quaife quick rack.  Adding caster to the front end improves handling significantly.  Steering effort is increased at parking lot speeds.  Handling gets better with a good alignment.  Nothing aggressive - about 1° negative camber all the way around, about 1/16" toe in at both ends, and all the caster you can get up front.  Ball joint wear is hard to detect on these cars, so replacing ball joints before the alignment is prudent.  OEM parts are advised whenever possible, with some exceptions for improvements like better rear tie rods and Koni inserts.

grafmiata said:

I also hated the mr2 shifter.  Felt like stirring a bag of antlers compared to the Miata.  

Shifter feel often suffers due to a variety of factors.  The shifter assembly in the car and the linkage at the transmission both have multiple bushings and pivot points that wear out and make everything worse if not corrected.  Transmission gear oil may want to be replaced with Redline MTL or similar.  These cars are also cheap enough to own that maintenance is often neglected, so there's every chance that any AW11 will not have had a gear oil change in at least ten years.

Jim Pettengill said:

As a street car the MR2 is great.  As a track car, it's heavy compared to a Miata.  My 89 has a listed weight of about 2350 with sunroof.  Also, the 87 - 89 cars  had "improvements" for the street that make them less desirable as track cars.  These were mostly brakes.  Because of the tendency to get "snap oversteer" in the 85s (mostly dumb drivers getting in over their heads and lifting suddenly mid corner, or hitting the brakes), Toyota dropped the rear sway bar that continued for the rest of the world, went to larger brake discs (that helped stop rotor warping), and added a rear brake proportioning valve that drastically reduced rear brake pressure during "heavy braking".  In actuality, this happens in mild braking and results in front wheel lockup that really kills times. 

Agreed, although I believe the front brake bias was there from day one.  It's tolerable on a bone-stock street car on soft OEM suspension, where lots of weight transfer happens under braking.  Once you stiffen the suspension, it's conspicuous.

burdickjp said:

I've spent time and money in both and would take an AW11 any day of the week over a Miata.

I think my criticisms of the Miata are nearly 1:1 Chris Harris' in this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=36whvegFIqg

The cockpit in the AW11 is very forward and visibility is excellent. You don't have to sit on the floor to clear a helmet. The OEM steering wheel in the zenki AW11 is also absolutely perfect in diameter and rim thickness.

The 4A-GE is an amazingly lively powerplant compared to the B6 or BP. It sounds so good and is so rev happy and makes great power. The C series gearbox is a cornucopia of available ratios, final drives, and LSDs. It does suck to shift, though. Really.

The steering in the AW11 is light and direct and the front end response is instant. It doesn't feel like the chassis shifts first and then changes direction.

Yeah, what he said.

Driving an AW11 feels like being in on a secret that nobody else knows.  It really does feel like I am getting away with something by driving mine.

Cheeky comparisons to proper exotics are inevitable, but the phrase "pocket Ferrari" is not inappropriate.  Maybe also "trailer park Testarossa".  Regardless, it's a hoot.

DarkMonohue said:

I've been driving an '85 MR2 for something like eighteen years.  I love driving it.  It is so choice.  If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

But not quite as nice as a 1961 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder 

Dark Monohue:  I know the snap oversteer thing is hogwash, that's why I had it in quotes.  Actually I've done hundreds of laps at both autocrosses and tight track days in Mk1bs, and I find the balance at the limit on those to be understeer; I prefer a neutral car that can be goaded into oversteer when desired, so a Mk1a would be the choice for a track car - or modifying the Mk1b.  In the past 20+ years I have only spun my Mk1bs three times, twice on track in the wet on worn TW200 tires, and once in an autocross in a tight, downhill, off-camber corner by being too (stupid/brave) aggressive.  Never had a problem with rear tire wear.

Mr. Joshua:  I also like the MRS and would consider one, but right now the prices in Colorado are through the roof.  Besides, in my AW11 I can carry two saxophones, a sack of microphones, a mic stand and a cooler.  Can't do that in an MRS.  Actually, I also have a 94 Corvette, and I can't even fit the tenor sax case in the luggage area!  The Vette goes on the block this summer, I'm  keeping the AW11 forever.

NickD said:

I have no experience with the AW11, but I absolutely love the ZZW30 MR2 Spyder/MR-S. Honestly, stock vs. stock, I'd take the MR-S over a Miata any day, and that's coming from a Miata owner.

I agree with this. The MRS is a real underdog. And a quality car. 

Jim Pettengill said:

I know the snap oversteer thing is hogwash, that's why I had it in quotes.

Understood. I think we are saying the same thing and didn't mean to suggest otherwise. 

Carrying capacity is pretty decent if one is creative. Both trunks are practical and usable. People sometimes get clever with external storage, too. A local used to strap a full set of wheels and tires down over the trunk and engine lid area when driving to track events out of town.  If it works...

I feel like this is a can't-go-wrong scenario. As a 6'2" and 200+ dude, plus someone experienced with the delightful Toyota 4A-GE, I'd go AW11 MR2 myself, but I've driven a couple Miatas and enjoyed them quite a bit. I owned a haggard AW11 for a couple years back in the 90s and loved it. The MR2 feels more special IMO, but might trail behind the Miata a skosh for user friendliness. For me personally, I either want a roof, or if I have the elements and the wind in my hair, I'd rather be on two wheels, but YMMV. Once again, tough to go wrong.

Carrying capacity:  When I was running 195/50-14 Kumho R tires on 14 x 7 wheels, I could put three in the cabin, one in the frunk, a small floor jack, tools, a small cooler, and a helmet in the rear trunk, drive 100 miles to the track, switch everything, switch back after the event and drive home with no problem.  Couldn't run a bigger front tire, though, the strut configuration pretty much requires coilovers to run really wide front tires.

In r eply to ae86andkp61 (Forum Supporter) :

This particular car has the sunroof,at 6'1" will I fit?

No point in a roadtrip to view if I won't.

In reply to Jim Pettengill :

I need to find the rallycross photo of my AW11 with 4 rally tires, jack, bag of tools, helmet, lunch cooler and 4 cases of water I was donating.

Re: fastoldfart, if you pass on the car, send me the link.  ;)

In reply to fastoldfart :

Someone else can probably answer better, but I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic you'll fit. Mine had no sunroof, and I'm longer in the legs and shorter in the torso than some others my height, and I fit just fine. 

I once used my MR2 to tow a potty potty to one of our stage rally which earned the car the nickname the Toyleta.

I've dailied and tracked both cars. I much prefer the Miata as I like the way it takes a set much more than the way the MR2 does.

I also feel the Miata has better shifting and steering (not that I think the MR2 is bad). 

The MR2 feels like an 80s car, where as the Miata feels much more modern than it is.

With that said I'd happily take an MR2 as they are great fun.

Tom1200 said:

The MR2 feels like an 80s car, where as the Miata feels much more modern than it is.

Well said!  That may be why the Miata never really captured my interest.  The first time I drove one, I was let down that it felt nothing like my MGB.  Better in every way, sure, but it didn't seem to have the sparkle I was expecting.  The AW11 does.

Between a lack of space and the misses having a firm "not more da#m cars or motorcycles" stance, i am going to have to pass. Posting link for the AW11 fans. Canadian dollar might make it worth a trip( about $8300) . Some interior pics would have been helpful.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/1986-toyota-mr2/1608152581?undefined

Tom1200 said:

I've dailied and tracked both cars. I much prefer the Miata as I like the way it takes a set much more than the way the MR2 does.

I also feel the Miata has better shifting and steering (not that I think the MR2 is bad).

I'd like to know more here, as what you're saying is 180 degrees from my experience. I found the Miata steering to be numb around center. While the MR2 steering is lighter, I found it more responsive around center. Even my AE86, while heavier in steering, seemed to respond better around center than the Miata.

The "set" of the Miata I never liked. It seemed like it wanted to roll before turning, whereas the MR2 always seemed flatter to me. Maybe my driving style in the AW11 was always to load up the front end before being too demanding of it? It always seemed like the AW11 would establish itself earlier.