My 1st BMW. Live and learn chronicle. 2009 128i

02Pilot said:

Since you have to do suspension work anyway, the M3/1M control arms are a nice upgrade (more front camber, some bushings replaced with ball joints) and fit perfectly. And since you'll be in there anyway for the bump stops, I should mention that I had Bilsteins in my car, but swapped them out for Konis, which are a lot more pleasant. Add in those rear subframe bushing inserts and you'll have a nice, better-than-new suspension.

Did you install this particular control arm kit? And which Koni's do you have now - yellow or orange? This car isn't going on a track..

https://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthAmerica/Technology/Which-color-KONI/

02Pilot said:

In reply to adam525i :

N51 came in all cars sold in certain states, regardless of transmission; my 6MT M-Sport has one (originally sold in NY).

NY is a California emissions state, this is probably why.  The underhood emissions sticker should tell you if it is a Federal or California emissions vehicle.

Sounds like BMW went with the fancy intake to counter the lower compression ratio.

In reply to OHSCrifle :

I think the kit I got was TRW, which FCP doesn't list any more. I did the Koni yellows.

This is the kit I recently installed on my E90 and agree that it's a nice improvement. One hint: after installing those arms toe will be way off and 3 turns out on tie rods will get it close to back to where it was so you can safely drive.  

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-control-arm-kit-5-piece-m-upgrade-bmwmcakit

I also have the TRW kit on my E82, that it would appear FCP doesn't sell anymore. It's kind of funny, TRW actually makes the arms for BMW, so if you ordered the TRW kit, brand new there were scratches on them from where they filed the BMW logo off of them (needed to not sell them as a BMW product- translation: for less money). 

It looks like FCP Euro does sell an aftermarket kit from Meyle: 

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-control-arm-kit-5-piece-m-upgrade-bmwmcakit


^^^The front control arms gave me almost a full extra degree of negative camber up front (they push the bottom of the knuckle out just a bit). The "bushings" are also solid (vs the fluid-filled non-sense the non-M cars come with) and I believe at least one of them was actually a sealed spherical bearing, which I was shocked to see on a production car. 

newold_m (Forum Supporter) said:

This is the kit I recently installed on my E90 and agree that it's a nice improvement. One hint: after installing those arms toe will be way off and 3 turns out on tie rods will get it close to back to where it was so you can safely drive.  

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-control-arm-kit-5-piece-m-upgrade-bmwmcakit

Did those Meyle arms have the BMW M logo ground off like the TRW arms?

roninsoldier83 said:

I also have the TRW kit on my E82, that it would appear FCP doesn't sell anymore. It's kind of funny, TRW actually makes the arms for BMW, so if you ordered the TRW kit, brand new there were scratches on them from where they filed the BMW logo off of them (needed to not sell them as a BMW product- translation: for less money). 

It looks like FCP Euro does sell an aftermarket kit from Meyle: 

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-control-arm-kit-5-piece-m-upgrade-bmwmcakit


^^^The front control arms gave me almost a full extra degree of negative camber up front (they push the bottom of the knuckle out just a bit). The "bushings" are also solid (vs the fluid-filled non-sense the non-M cars come with) and I believe at least one of them was actually a sealed spherical bearing, which I was shocked to see on a production car. 

Do they feel harsh at all or just "solid" like a new car?

edit: Turner has the TRW arms 

OHSCrifle said:

roninsoldier83 said:

I also have the TRW kit on my E82, that it would appear FCP doesn't sell anymore. It's kind of funny, TRW actually makes the arms for BMW, so if you ordered the TRW kit, brand new there were scratches on them from where they filed the BMW logo off of them (needed to not sell them as a BMW product- translation: for less money). 

It looks like FCP Euro does sell an aftermarket kit from Meyle: 

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-control-arm-kit-5-piece-m-upgrade-bmwmcakit


^^^The front control arms gave me almost a full extra degree of negative camber up front (they push the bottom of the knuckle out just a bit). The "bushings" are also solid (vs the fluid-filled non-sense the non-M cars come with) and I believe at least one of them was actually a sealed spherical bearing, which I was shocked to see on a production car. 

Do they feel harsh at all or just "solid" like a new car?

edit: Turner has the TRW arms 

I think they feel perfectly civil. I can't comment on the before & after, as the car was nearly undrivable when I bought it (bad rack and pinion) and trying to troubleshoot, I put the TRW arms in before I replaced the rack and pinion. 

I'm running both the front and rear TRW M3/1M arms along with the Bilstein B12 kit. I would say this is still the smoothest driving car I own- as it's just slightly softer than my stock 2021 Mazda 3 Turbo and certainly softer than my near-stock AP2 S2000. 

In reply to roninsoldier83 :

Thanks. My mechanic is a big proponent of fresh OEM parts, not messing with what BMW engineered. BUT I've heard enough of you (here, who own E82s) sing the praises of the M3 front arms so I believe it's worth doing - even for a part time DD (likely only 5 to 6 thousand mile per year). I believe the rear M3 arms are same geometry as the sport package.. aren't they?

In reply to OHSCrifle :

No, the M3 front arms are not the same geometry as the Sport package- one of the M3 front arms is physically longer, pushing the lower part of the knuckle out, which is why they're advertised to give extra negative camber. 
 

The TRW arms are an OEM part, just for the M3. Which, it makes sense, when BMW designs an M car, they want it to handle better than the base variation- and since it's a strut front end with 2 lower arms, the best way to increase negative camber is to make the arm(s) longer than the base model. I suppose they could also use offset bushings (or maybe an eccentric bolt in the bushings?), or maybe offset the strut mount (liked the aftermarket fixed camber plates- most OEM's don't use adjustable camber plates) but an extended lower arm is a more reliable, easier to implement choice. They look nearly identical to your stock arms, but if you measure them, they're longer. Bonus that they don't have those silly fluid-filled bushings (one less thing to go wrong/leak). 
 

EDIT: I just saw you used the word "rear" lol. Oops! Yes, the M3 rear arms are essentially the same geometry as stock. They're shaped differently IIRC, but same length/geometry. 

OHSCrifle said:

newold_m (Forum Supporter) said:

This is the kit I recently installed on my E90 and agree that it's a nice improvement. One hint: after installing those arms toe will be way off and 3 turns out on tie rods will get it close to back to where it was so you can safely drive.  

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-control-arm-kit-5-piece-m-upgrade-bmwmcakit

Did those Meyle arms have the BMW M logo ground off like the TRW arms?

Actually FCP might have changed the contents of the kit. When I ordered I paid $360 and it did include TRW arms with the M logo ground off. Looking at the link now looks like everything is Meyle and they tend to be a step or two below in quality compared to TRW. If I was to do it now would get the TRW kit from Turner or Bimmerworld and skip Meyle even I though I much prefer dealing with FCP. 

To answer the question on NVH. I found there is a just a tiny bit more but turn in is so much better that it was worth it. The front arm (diagonal) has a stiffer bushing compared to OEM, the main control arm is ball joint for better articulation and is extended to give the additional negative camber. 

In reply to newold_m (Forum Supporter)

and to roninsoldier83 :
 

Thanks - both of you. Appreciate the insights. 
 

I got the car registered this morning and still planning the 15 year old suspension refresh. 

Major repairs +1 week and things are better. Pondering next step.

Mechanic advised replacing right side engine mount and front "thrust arms" (Bentley manual term) which have worn out bushings. So that will definitely happen.

Note: Internet lore says "thrust arms" are AKA "tension strut" by BMW.. and just "upper control arm" by most everyone else. I'm 95% sure these are not the ones that are slightly longer when you get the M3 version..

When I advised that it just feels worn out.. Same mechanic proposed "full suspension refresh" consisting of replacement shocks, mounts and bump stops. 

What has me in analysis paralysis is that I had speculated the clanking I can hear (and feel) is mostly from worn bushings. Curious what others have experienced with regard to suspension refresh around 100k miles in a 15 year old E82 or E9x.

Before I go and replace shocks/struts/mounts/bump stops AND a bunch of control arms - I'm curious if for example the other front and the rear control arms are generally going to last much beyond 100k. And do springs even wear out?

So please advise me. I'm unlikely to go participate in track days or even Solo. It's just a fun daily. But I love the feel of "new" suspension. Should I attack it in steps (aligning along the way) or just open the wallet and refresh everything? I'm leaning toward the latter... but $$.

If you apply and release the brake at low speeds, can you feel something in the front end thumping back and forth?

Almost everyone uses some form of "compliance bushing" in the front suspension that allows the wheel to move back and forth in a controlled manner when hitting bumps.  Helps the wheel track better and reduces NVH.  These bushings wear more rapidly than any other bushing on the car and need replaced relatively frequently, say every 100k or so.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

The control arms that I know need to be replaced contain that bushing, I believe. 

If you're looking for an enabler, I'm here to help. 
 

I can't say how much of a difference the M3 arms made on my E82 due to my steering rack being shot when I put them in. I also can't say how much of a difference new tie rods made, as the rebuilt steering rack I put in came with new tie rods. 
 

What I can say, is that after putting in the new Bilstein B12 setup (B8 shocks/struts & Eibach springs), new mounts & rubbers, new front endlinks and an alignment, the car feels considerably tighter, like an actual sports car. I also put in new Whiteline rear subframe bushing inserts at the same time- hard to say how much of a difference they made as I put them in around the same time as the new suspension, but what I can say is that the rear end now feels more connected- it feels like the car reacts more as a whole now, with less of a delay from the rear. 
 

My E82 is now far more confidence inspiring. Honestly it now handles comparably to my near-stock AP2 S2000. Yet, it's still very compliant on the street. Would I do it all again? Yes, without a doubt. I'll see if I want to go stiffer after some track work (likely next year), but for a fun street car, I would leave the suspension as I have it right now. 
 

For reference the Eibach springs are supposedly similar springs rates to the OEM Sports package springs. When I measured them with my electronic calipers, the Eibach springs were about 1mm thicker, front and rear. Not sure what the difference in metals used is. Take that as you will. 

Clunk when braking is probably the thrust arm, they have multiple names but I don't think I've ever heard them called upper control arms.  Normally they start leaking fluid when they go bad, you can replace them with factory parts, or replace just the bushings with aftermarket parts.  You want to do the m3 parts though, they are sold in a control arm, thrust arm set.  You don't have sport package so you would benefit from an upgrade there as well.  If you are going to do a full m3 rear swap the rear shock is different, so it comes down to if you want to spend all the money at once or do it in steps & risk having to replace the same part multiple time & perform multiple alignments.

Caperix said:

Clunk when braking is probably the thrust arm, they have multiple names but I don't think I've ever heard them called upper control arms.  Normally they start leaking fluid when they go bad, you can replace them with factory parts, or replace just the bushings with aftermarket parts.  You want to do the m3 parts though, they are sold in a control arm, thrust arm set.  You don't have sport package so you would benefit from an upgrade there as well.  If you are going to do a full m3 rear swap the rear shock is different, so it comes down to if you want to spend all the money at once or do it in steps & risk having to replace the same part multiple time & perform multiple alignments.

I don't think I have read that the M3 rear control arms require different rear shocks. Can you elaborate ?

Mine is not a factory sport suspension car. In addition to replacing the front arms, I am thinking about the Bilstein B12 kit. Or maybe just Koni STRt damper set and keep existing springs (but refresh with all new mounting bits). Not sure about the need to replace rear control arms. 

I think you only need to change the shocks if you use the M3 subframe; I used standard E82 shocks with the M3/1M rear control arms. When I asked here, the general consensus was that the Koni Sports (yellow) were worth the premium, but I have no experience with the STR to make a comparison myself. I will say that the Koni yellows are much nicer on the street than the Bilsteins I had previously.

IMHO, it's worth biting the bullet and doing it all at once: dampers and control arms at least, springs if you want lower. No repeated labor, one alignment at the end, and done. It's a weekend's worth of work if all goes well.

Koni sports with adjustability for around $300 more for the set is probably smart money. But I believe that means I need lowering springs. 

In reply to 02Pilot :

That's interesting that the Koni sports ride better on the street than the Bilstein's- my Bilstein setup rides very smooth on rougher Colorado roads. Which Bilstein's were you running? With Eibach springs? Is that with the Koni's set to full soft? I wonder if that's just because of the Bilstein's higher compression dampening? 
 

I've ran Koni Sports on previous cars to great effect. I have nothing against them- they're a great shock. From a technical standpoint, the Bilstein B6/B8 is seemingly a better shock (inverted monotube vs the Koni being a twin tube), it just lack adjustability. I really just went with the Bilstein setup this time out of curiousity, as I've had Koni's in the past- but the thought of running an inverted monotube for similar money was appealing as well. Not the mention the B12 is allegedly valved specifically for the Eibach springs. Technically, a set of Koni Sports is actually about ~$60 cheaper than the Bilstein's. Good deal for an adjustable shock. 
 

OP- if you're happy with the ride and handling of your E82, you can save your money and just get the STRt dampers- they're closer to an OEM, or Sport set on full soft, but if you are looking for an upgrade, I don't think you can go wrong with either the Bilstein or Koni setup.

For reference, I think the B12 setup rides very smooth on the street... but I will admit, I do prefer cars that ride a bit on the firmer side. The B12 is heaps smoother than my old Focus RS and my old GD chassis Subaru STI, it's even a bit softer than my AP2 S2000 (all on stock springs/dampers). It might even be a hair smoother than my stock 2021 Mazda 3 Turbo (which, that car has a torsion rear end, so take that for what it's worth). I find it very compliant, but I also prefer cars that aren't floppy from the factory (cars like the ND Miata are far too floaty for my tastes). 
 

Keep in mind that the tires I'm running (Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 Plus) are known to have a comfortable ride. I suppose I might feel different (probably not, but maybe) if I was running a tire with a stiffer or shorter sidewall (I'm still on OEM 17's). 
 

EDIT: I just consulted my wife. She only half agrees with my assessment. She insists that the B12 setup is a bit more firm than my Mazda 3 Turbo, but agrees that it's certainly smoother than my essentially stock S2000. 

In reply to OHSCrifle :

The m3 lower control arm uses a shock with a cross bolt holding it.  The standard e9x/e8x arm uses a stud on the bottom of the shock that sits in a rubber bushing.  You can replace the other arms & keep the standard shock & lower arm, but the shock does bind less & work better with the m3 setup.

In reply to roninsoldier83 :

Having just driven quite a bit in Colorado, I can say that your roads (the paved ones, at least) are an order of magnitude smoother than what I typically drive in NY. Between the construction zones, potholes, expansion joints, and general crappiness, the Bilsteins are just too harsh. That said, I have them in two other cars (HDs in my 2002, and the factory ones in my ND) and they are better, so it seems to be application-specific.

I have the front Konis set to full soft, and the rears one notch harder. I had plans to tune them more as I got used to them, but these settings are good enough that I haven't been sufficiently motivated.

In reply to 02Pilot :

That's interesting feedback. Maybe the OEM sized Continental's I'm running are helping to soak up the firmness? Or just a difference in preference? Or maybe our local roads really are just nicer here? 
 

We've recently taken the E82 w/B12's on a couple 45+ minute drives on our concrete freeways (read: no potholes but expansion joints) and I thought the car was comfortable. We also took it to Commerce City to test drive a stock-ish (it did have bigger wheels/thinner tires) R53 Mini Cooper S- the roads were we on in Commerce City reminded me of being back in Iraq! That Mini beat us up pretty hard and I commented that it was just too harsh for a street car; whereas I thought the Bilstein's on the E82 did a good job of soaking up the mayhem. 
 

I've owned a few track cars that were too hard to drive for long periods of time on the street. I've owned a couple factory cars that I thought were too harsh- my old Focus RS beat the hell out of me! My old DC2 Integra was on Koni Sports and OEM Type R springs- with the Koni's set above about 1/2 way, they started to get too stiff (1/2 or below and they were just about perfect in terms of ride compliance). My AP2 S2000 is at the upper limit of what I would consider streetable (it's certainly firmer than my E82 w/B12's)... I've had cars I would consider too harsh for street duty before, I wouldn't consider the E82 w/B12's one of them- I consider the B12 setup pretty ideal for a street car, but admit I prefer a car with a more planted ride. 
 

After chatting with my wife again, she believes the 128i w/B12's rides a bit smoother than her stock 2016 Challenger 392 Scat Pack Shaker. Admittedly her Challenger comes stock with 20 inch wheels. 

Dropping this here for motivation