My boy needs a nice entry level mountain bike - what sayeth the Hive?

So my son turns 13" and has officially outgrown his skinny tire Redline BMX bike.  I'm looking for a new or potentially lightly used entry level mountain bike.  He's 5'8" and likely going to be a 6'1-3" dude so looking at a large size.

Initial spec needs

-29" wheels seem to be the answer

-Likely a 2X7-10 setup as that seems to be the new style

-$500-700 budget (which kills me at ow pricey bikes got)

I'm looking at the couple choices below but welcome input from the class.

Giant Talon 4

Trek Marlin 4

Cannondale Trail 8

Look for something a few years old. You'll get better value and there's been nothing truly revolutionary happen despite what the marketing says. My 2012 Bianchi is huge fun and checks all your boxes for about 25% of what it cost new. 

Hardtail is the way to go.  There is no need for a front gear setup--it's just extra junk to add weight and go out of adjustment.  If the kid's used to pushing a BMX gear, just get a single speed (if you can find one), or better still, find a bike that has sliding rear dropouts (Salsa/Santa Cruz), so as to facilitate single-speed perfection after the derailleur creates too much anger.

Used might be your best bet, or maybe building over a period of time, starting with a frame that meets specific needs.  I really dig my new Canfield hardtail, to the point where I recently sold my Marin dual-suspension bike for lack of use.  The price of everything blows.

There's a decent amount of good learnin' available on YouTube.  Check out Hardtail Party.

Bike's have come a long way since we were younger, I got back into the sport a few years ago and had the same sticker shock but the engineering and capability of a modern bike is light years ahead where they were 20+ years ago. Unfortunately for us that jump didn't come cheap. If you're down to the 3 bikes you listed then I'd cross the trail 8 off the list and go after either the Giant or the Trek. Frame geometry, price, and components are very similar between them so I imagine they'll ride more or less the same. It sounds like the 2022 Talon can be had with a 1x8 shifter, if it's me I'd take that over the 2x7 on the Trek. 

That said, you can get a lot more bike if you're willing to buy used.  If I'm in your shoes I'd be looking for a newish (2018 or newer) Specialized Rockhopper. They're one of the most popular entry-level hardtails and people who are upgrading are constantly selling. I see them in the $500 price range all the time. There are plenty of other options too, just stick with newer bikes in the last few years. Manufacturers were still trying to figure out 29" wheels and modern geometry through the mid 2010's and a lot of them missed the mark. When you're looking at a used bike make sure it shifts good, hubs arent loose (wiggle the wheels - just like checking a wheel bearing on your car), brakes work, and inspect the frame for cracks and damage, especially near the seams.  Also check that the wheels spin true and spoke tensions are consistent (plink sound - listen for duds). Other than that it's mostly cosmetics.

Things to look for, you most likely won't be able to find all of these in your price range - but they're desirable if you can: 

- 1x drivetrain (1x10/11/12 all are fine). Front derailleurs are becoming phased out, a 1x system really simplifies shifting and improves the experience. 

-Thru-axle hubs vs spindles. Typically "boost spacing" will mean it has a thru-axle but you can have a thru-axle without boost spacing too. A thru axle is stiffer and more rigid. It'll be more durable and you can feel the snappiness in the bike. 

- Dropper post.  They're pneumatic pistons that let you raise / lower the seat post with the push of a button. Most bikes in your price range won't come with a dropper but look for bikes advertised "dropper ready". That means they have the cable routing for them. You can still add them via external cables if the bike isn't "dropper ready". They're easy and relatively cheap ($100) to add. One of the biggest game changers in modern bikes, this will make a great birthday present down the road.   

- Disc brakes. Everything should have them.  Bonus points for hydraulic disc brakes instead of cable actuated discs, the hydraulics will have more stopping power. 

- Front forks. The more travel the better. 100+mm makes for a good trail bike. Coil forks are more common at this price point but you might find a used bike with air forks.

Happy trails! 

I'd go used in that range,  first post in your area craigslist looks promising but I'm not current on the market

Trek Gary fisher superfly 29er $650

When I was selling bikes, your budget got a moderate low-mid range rigid or a very low end hardtail.  Bikes are soooo cheap nowadays it is crazy, even before factoring in inflation.

+1 on used.  Bikes do not hold their value well, it is easy to find used bikes in great shape that were rode like 3 times then became garage ornaments, and it is not like a teenager is not going to trash it inside of a month anyway, right?  (We were all that age once)

This is what $500 got me two years ago... this was a $4000 bike new.

Yah it is old school ish nowadays, but I am definitely not a fan of disk brakes, big poofy tires, or sitting upright.  Point is, full suspension bike of my dreams (full XTR groupset, too!) for pennies on the dollar.  Looks like it was never ridden.

Droppers aren't a necessity, they're a convenience. Front derailleurs aren't that scary and I kinda like having a "low/high range" gearset.

Disc brakes are a godsend and a good front fork makes all the difference. 

Hardtails feel very different from full suspension. They're a lot more efficient and climb better, but they're not as good on the downhill and they don't suffer poor technique as much. 

I recently went through this for my 13 yo, and while I watched marketplace and CL for deals on used, but finally gave in and went new with this:

REI - DRT 1.1

I still need to go pick it up, so I can't comment on how it is in person. 

I know if he gets serious about it I'll have to upgrade over time, but figure this was a good starting point in the current market. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

If you have a quick release seat post clamp you don't need a dropper.    it was always easy enough to reach down and loosen it while riding before hitting the trail.  The only problem was raising it back up for the ride home. New problem: finding quick release seat post clamps...

A person coming out of BMX bikes would probably feel a lot more comfortable on a hardtail, but having been a 13 year old once, the bling factor of having gee-whiz stuff is outasite.   Hard to make a decision like that.  That said I tried riding full suspension for a while and built a dedicated trail rig from a hardtail frame for reasons.  Won't know what you like until you try.

I just went through this with my 13 year old. I recently got back into mountain biking and got a new bike. His box store bike just wasn't cutting it. I was looking for a full suspension so that he could keep up with me on descents, and ended up finding an older Trek Fuel Ex 8 for $500. It is light years ahead of any new bike in that price range. It's a bit outdated- no dropper post, 3x drivetrain, and 26" wheels. But great components- Fox fork and shock, XT and XTR drivetrain. And it's LIGHT. He's tall but not big, I figured keeping the weight and overall size down was a plus for him now. I love my 29er, but it's not as light and agile as a smaller wheel bike. I think the 3x also comes in handy for him on tough climbs. 
 

I will say though, the dropper post is one of my favorite features. There is no comparison to a quick release- unless you somehow can work a quick release to raise and lower the saddle while blasting down a trail, which would be a pretty impressive feat. 2nd is tubeless tires, those are a game changer. 
 

I also picked up a nice used 24" Specialized Hot Rock for my 9 year old. Much lighter and better built than a box store bike for the same money and bikes that size are easy to find used. I'll also get my money back when he outgrows it. 

I'm old.  I ride steel nowadays.  It's like used cars though.  You are buying the owner and get the best you can afford.  

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

The QR clamps aren't hard to find, I'm pretty sure they're used with droppers to set the highest height. Iirc Janel's big Trek has one along with her dropper.

I used to move my seat when I started mountain riding in the 80s. Then I stopped because it was rarely worthwhile and I could get way back even with it in my normal riding position. Haven't moved my seat in years and my hardtail can't actually adjust the seat height without a saw. I haven't missed it yet. But it's been great business for Fox, convincing everyone they need yet another hydraulic cylinder on their bike :) I will admit I'm much happier riding cross country instead of downhill, so maybe that's why everyone has their seat slammed into the top tube these days. 

Used bike prices are finally returning from orbit. This looks pretty reasonable and is what I'd shop for if in the same market.  I'd find your local FB bike classified group and keep an eye open.

In reply to Brotus7 :

Oooooh.

I am definitely not a DH kind of person but wow.

To add some random points:  

1.  29" wheels are the best, period.  They can make up for a lot in both suspension and ability.

2.  No suspension is way better than junky suspension.

3.  Cheap carbon is worse than middle-of-road aluminum.  Steel is the pinnacle.

4.  Generally, fewer moving parts = less annoyance/maintenance.  Silence is golden.

5.  Nobody actually needs a dropper post.  They break and distract.  The seat is a point of contact and control, even in DH.

6.  Like with the car, everything comes down to skill and how much fun you can have (or impact you can create) with as little as possible.  Build up, not down.

No Time said:

I recently went through this for my 13 yo, and while I watched marketplace and CL for deals on used, but finally gave in and went new with this:

REI - DRT 1.1

I still need to go pick it up, so I can't comment on how it is in person. 

I know if he gets serious about it I'll have to upgrade over time, but figure this was a good starting point in the current market. 

I'm looking hard at these as there is a $479 sale on them.  Was noodling on how worries I should be as they only come 27.5 vs 29.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

If you have a quick release seat post clamp you don't need a dropper.    it was always easy enough to reach down and loosen it while riding before hitting the trail.  The only problem was raising it back up for the ride home. New problem: finding quick release seat post clamps...

 

A person coming out of BMX bikes would probably feel a lot more comfortable on a hardtail, but having been a 13 year old once, the bling factor of having gee-whiz stuff is outasite.   Hard to make a decision like that.  That said I tried riding full suspension for a while and built a dedicated trail rig from a hardtail frame for reasons.  Won't know what you like until you try.

I patently hate suspension.  I get all the glory and capability but feel much better on a rigid gravel bike.

In reply to 84FSP :

Me too, said trail bike had a rigid fork.  I think rigid is more glorious and more capable but at the same time, I am not 16 anymore so I am fine with concessions to fragile tendons and joints.  (New bike does weigh only like 25lb, at least, so not much penalty for all the monkey motion)

In reply to 84FSP :
 

Considering the most common wheel size for a long time was 26", I wouldn't worry too much about the difference between 27.5" and 29" for him at this point.  

Depending on how tight the trails are, the smaller size may be easier for him to control as he gains confidence. I'm 5'7" and find the 27.5" is a good balance for tight single track, and still stable on faster sections. 

I went from fully rigid to full suspension when I moved out here - it's more important on our rocky trails than the dirt ones out east. But I went back to hardtail last year and am reveling in the precision and the climbing traction. I still have the full suspension for certain trails in the area where I just get beat up on the hardtail. 

I like the size of a 26" bike, I like feeling bigger than the bike is. My XC enduro full suspension bike is a 26" and it's very weildy on our technical trails. My hardtail is a 29" with a seriously steep head angle so it still turns - it's a little old school apparently but then so am I. A DH style 29" feels like a trophy truck, it'll go over everything but it's not quite the scalpel I enjoy so much. I suspect a 27.5 might be the sweet spot for an all-rounder. 

Hah this thread would have saved me about 40 hrs of binge watching YouTube to figure out what has changed over last 20 years. Yesterday I ordered the cheapest new rigid single speed MTB in the US - Gravity Deadeye. $379 with tax. Time will tell once I actually get on it. Going for simplicity before I reinvest in a $2k bike. 

This my very very lightly used 93 Cannondale; I paid $500. These were $2200 new..........it is utterly immaculate.

There are deals out there. Given he's going to grow out of the bike pretty quickly I wouldn't get to hung up on all the features......get nice one and go ride.

I forgot to mention, the most important part is what your son's intended use is. A rigid steel single speed might be nice for cruising around town, but not great for trails. Having a mountain bike and going mountain biking can mean different things. No matter what kind of bike you choose, getting a quality bike is worth the added cost, new or used. Plus you will get more of your money back when he outgrows it. Which brings me to my next point- don't size a bike for a kid, even a tall one, based on expected height. One of the most important aspects of a bike is fit. At 5'8", he's close, depending on the model of bike, but would likely be better off on a smaller frame for now. 
 

As for hard tail Vs. full suspension- assuming doing actual mountain bike stuff- some really good full suspension mountain bikes can be had used at your budget if you look hard enough. But you can also find newer hardtails with more of the other modern upgrades, and many people believe that hardtails are better to learn on. But they are a different animal if the goal is to go fast over rough terrain. That said, there are many different flavors of full suspension. From least travel/best climbing to most travel/not really meant to pedal uphill, you have cross country, trail, enduro, downhill. For most riders, trail is the sweet spot, which is now a pretty wide catagory on it's own. The Fuel EX's earlier in this thread are trail bikes. 

I manage a bike shop in Texas. If you are buying new, all of the major brands are so similar at each price point what really matters is the services and warranty the bike shop/brand offers. for example at my shop we offer free lifetime tune ups on all our new bikes in addition to the lifetime manufacture warranty.  another tip is doesn't matter the price of the bike but a properly built bike will outlast one that was just taken out of a box and put on the showroom floor. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

When I was selling bikes, your budget got a moderate low-mid range rigid or a very low end hardtail.  Bikes are soooo cheap nowadays it is crazy, even before factoring in inflation.

 

+1 on used.  Bikes do not hold their value well, it is easy to find used bikes in great shape that were rode like 3 times then became garage ornaments, and it is not like a teenager is not going to trash it inside of a month anyway, right?  (We were all that age once)

 

This is what $500 got me two years ago... this was a $4000 bike new.

Yah it is old school ish nowadays, but I am definitely not a fan of disk brakes, big poofy tires, or sitting upright.  Point is, full suspension bike of my dreams (full XTR groupset, too!) for pennies on the dollar.  Looks like it was never ridden.

That appears to be a late 90's Schwinn S-10, and I'm extremely skeptical about it being $4000 new. Feel free to prove me wrong. Also, you must have tried some really low end cable disc brakes to be not a fan of disc brakes. A half decent set of hydraulic brakes are way better than the old cantilever rim brakes.

I bought my Brodie Thumper new in 2001 for $2500 CDN. It was a good bike at the time, and held it's own at the Whistler bike park back then:

That being said, bikes have gotten much better and I finally replaced it 2 years ago with a used 2015 Kona Process 153 DL, that I paid about half of the new price:

The newer frame geometry, bigger wheels, bigger suspension travel and dropper post are a big improvement. That being said, it is more bike than some people need, and less bike than others need. Without knowing what kind of riding your son is planning, it's hard for me to say if something like this would be right for him. I can tell you that it's likely more than you want to spend, given the budget you mentioned.

I'll second the opinions of those suggesting to buy used quality brand hardtail.