NA Miata brake upgrades for the street?

Incremental improvements...with the success of the manual rack in moving the steering effort from the threshold of almost being too heavy to just about perfect, I am moving on to the brakes.

The Molvo has standard NA brakes in good conditions. Not that they are bad, but I would like them to be better than they are; they are on the threshold .  I know that there is no end of high end $tuff to be tried, but I am a big fan of keeping parts OEM insofar as it simplifies servicing down the road. 

Are the Mazda  NA "Sports Brakes" worth moving up to? I believe that this keeps the exact same calipers but spaces the caliper on a wider orbit with a larger disc. Sounds pretty simple. Any caveats from those that have gone down this road?

Any other words of wisdom on the topic are welcome.

Pete

What is the objective? I would think you can do a decent set of pads/rotors, a bleed, and send it.

NB Sport brakes (optional for 2001-02, standard for 2003-05 in the US) use:

- larger master
- larger front pistons in a front caliper with a different design
- larger rear pistons
- different booster

So it's, um, different. There are no NA Sports Brakes unless you mean the larger ones found on all 1994-97 cars. They're usually called "1.8 brakes" because we collectively have no imagination.

What do you want to be better? More braking for a given pedal pressure? More heat handling ability? Firmer pedal? More race brake scream?

NOHOME said:

The Molvo has standard NA brakes in good conditions. Not that they are bad, but I would like them to be better than they are; they are on the threshold .  I know that there is no end of high end $tuff to be tried, but I am a big fan of keeping parts OEM insofar as it simplifies servicing down the road. 

Are the Mazda  NA "Sports Brakes" worth moving up to? I believe that this keeps the exact same calipers but spaces the caliper on a wider orbit with a larger disc. Sounds pretty simple. Any caveats from those that have gone down this road?

Keith is probably the expert, but:

IIRC there are basically three Miata brake systems for NA/NB.  90-93 (1.6) got small brakes, 94-00 (NA 1.8 and first two years of NB) got bigger fronts and rears.  I think the rears are the same caliper on a different bracket with a larger rotor, using different a different pad shape.  01+ NBs had an optional "sport" brake system which was bigger again.  Calipers, pads, rotors are all different between 1.8 and NB2 sport.

Lots of threads about this on miata.net.

(edit:  Heh, Keith showed up while I was typing this. :) )

:)

Going from 1.6 to 1.8 brakes is just a matter of new caliper brackets, pads and rotors. Going to Sport is a little more complex. But there are also some fun interchange things you can do with boosters and masters and calipers. Every one of my Miatas has a different brake system :)

Keith Tanner said:

:)

Going from 1.6 to 1.8 brakes is just a matter of new caliper brackets, pads and rotors. Going to Sport is a little more complex. But there are also some fun interchange things you can do with boosters and masters and calipers. Every one of my Miatas has a different brake system :)

I only have one Miata, but it's had about a dozen different brake systems on it over the last 20 years! :)

I don't recall if you ever posted the weight of the Molvo, but if it's not significantly more than a Miata, 1.8 brakes with good pads/rotors/fluid should be fine for normal street driving.  If you're looking for more performance (especially thermal capacity), you'll probably want an upgrade.  It's getting harder to find NB Sport brake calipers and brackets, so it may be worth spending a little more to get aftermarket components.  By the time you get the Sport components and rebuild them, you'll be close to the cost of an aftermarket kit.  Also, sometimes the pads for Wilwood calipers are cheaper and last longer.  They're almost always easier to change.

There's the classic FM LBBK:  FM LBBK

And Supermiata has a new front kit with Wilwood calipers that uses ND 11" rotors that's pretty affordable.  Supermiata Boxmount BBK

For the rear, the 1.8 stuff should be sufficient.

A lot of good Miata brake info in one spot:  Supermiata Brake FAQ

Here's a vote for the cheap option: Fresh fluid, more aggressive pad, then a brake cylinder brace to firm up the pedal. Spend $200 and see if that blows your skirt up

Keith Tanner said:

:)

Going from 1.6 to 1.8 brakes is just a matter of new caliper brackets, pads and rotors. Going to Sport is a little more complex. But there are also some fun interchange things you can do with boosters and masters and calipers. Every one of my Miatas has a different brake system :)

And hence why I look for advice on this forum...!

OK, so what was on my mind was the larger 1.8 brakes. The Molvo is a bit porkier than a standard NA so anything that will make the brakes more assertive and improve braking distance would be welcome. 

Going into year 8 of building this thing and not looking for a long fabrication rich project that will eat a lot of $$$, more into the driving side of development. Doubt the car will ever see track time so heat management is not a priority ( unless I make it back to the Cabot trail).

That said, if there is a documented collection of NB parts that would be transformative, I am always open to learning new stuff.

Pete

Rodan said:

For the rear, the 1.8 stuff should be sufficient.

For the rear in particular you can buy brackets to move the OEM calipers outboards so that they fit over a Sport-sized rear rotor.  This is actually better than using real Sport rear brakes because there's a much larger pad selection for the "1.8" rear caliper.

In reply to calteg :

Other than the brace I should be there. I am not sure the brace would bring much to the party as I am not tracking the car such that the firewall is being stressed. 

In reply to Rodan :

Thanks for the reading. Good food for thought. My guess is that I am at 2700 lb with no people on board, so certainly more for the brakes to do. The 200 TW tires are NOT the weak link and I would like them to be.

Second vote for "1.8" brakes with HPS pads and fresh fluid.   That should be plenty of stop for any street use.

NOHOME said:

In reply to calteg :

Other than the brace I should be there. I am not sure the brace would bring much to the party as I am not tracking the car such that the firewall is being stressed. 

The brace just generally improves the brake pedal feel, it's not really a track thing IME.

KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) said:

Second vote for "1.8" brakes with HPS pads and fresh fluid.   That should be plenty of stop for any street use.

Agree.  Maybe add aftermarket brake hoses if it didn't get new hoses during the build.

HPS pads are really good for the street.  I've run them on NA 1.6, NC and some other cars and they always worked well in all temps and without a lot of dust.  They have a new pad called the HPS 5.0 that I have on our street NB, and I'm happy with them so far, but it's only been a few hundred miles.  

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

So is the 1.8 rear caliper different than the 1.6 calipers I have now?

NOHOME said:

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

So is the 1.8 rear caliper different than the 1.6 calipers I have now?

IIRC the rear calipers in the 1.6 and 1.8 are not completely identical, but they are interchangeable.  So to convert to 1.8 rear brakes all you need is the larger rotor, the bracket, and pads.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Rodan said:

For the rear, the 1.8 stuff should be sufficient.

For the rear in particular you can buy brackets to move the OEM calipers outboards so that they fit over a Sport-sized rear rotor.  This is actually better than using real Sport rear brakes because there's a much larger pad selection for the "1.8" rear caliper.

If you want more rear bias, you can put the Sport rear caliper on the 1.8 brackets. That lets you retain the more popular 1.8 pad shape but gets you 1.375" pistons instead of 1.25".

I would suggest an adjustable prop valve in the system so you can dial it in as well. Especially on a car that's so far from stock.