NC1 vs NC2

So I've got a low mileage 2006 Miata that I'm planning on turning into a dual(triple?)-duty car. IE, daily driver and occasionally HPDE/Auto-X.

Are the improvements to the engine, trans, geometry worth me bumping up to a 09-10 to start with?

Nah. Dump the motor and get a 2.5L with cams and that will be a lot better than any of the factory changes and the difference in costs would be about the same if you are that worried about it.

Honestly, I'd sell your 06 now, wait a year and then buy a blown motor NC. The release of the ND will drive NC prices down even further, and you can do what bmwrider suggested.

^Meh, that seems like a waste. Then I'd have to buy and tag another car to drive for the next year.

bmw88rider wrote: Nah. Dump the motor and get a 2.5L with cams and that will be a lot better than any of the factory changes and the difference in costs would be about the same if you are that worried about it.

I've considered this too. Dynotronics has a heck of a deal going with their 2.5 swap setups.

$5k gets a built 2.5 installed with pistons, cams, and tuned on the dyno. Maybe I'll look for a 09+ transmission to have around in case the early one blows up.

If you're considering trading your '06 for a more capable car, why are you limiting your search to an NC2?

nderwater wrote: If you're considering trading your '06 for a more capable car, why are you limiting your search to an NC2?

Cost of vehicle, cost of running and consumables, miles/condition available for price, and I like them.....NCs that is.

But it looks like the cost difference to upgrade to an NC2 would cover suspension/wheels and maybe tires.

I've already been talking to Stuart Maxcy about a custom valved set of Motion Control single adjustable coilovers.

I'd stick with what you have in the interest of getting some seat time. (Despite me thinking NC1s are gross looking, and NC2s are hot) Do suspension and other fun things.

Go 2.5 down the road for added braps.

You can bolt the NC2 headlights and bumper cover on an NC1 to fix the blobby face problem

Keith Tanner wrote: the blobby face problem

hahahahaa

calteg wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: the blobby face problem

hahahahaa

I think the NC1 looks better than the NC2. And I'm a former NC2 owner.

Didn't the NC2 get a stronger crankshaft or something? Of course, thats not relevant if you are planning an engine swap.

Manual transmission NC2s (and NC3s) got forged internals.

Keith Tanner wrote: Manual transmission NC2s (and NC3s) got forged internals.

They also changed a shift fork or something in the transmission? And I thought I read somewhere there was a tweak to the suspension geometry?

They certainly got better shocks as time went on, the NC3 is actually decent out of the box. I've not confirmed geometry changes but I haven't spent a lot of time digging. I know the control arms are the same part number.

I'm not sure when the shift fork changed. IIRC, there was a matching change in the RX8. There are people on this forum who know more than I about that. The 2006 6-speed would snap the fork after about 200 racing laps, when driven by pro drivers who didn't have to pay for the car

I'm going to guess that change would have been 09, but that's pure theory. That IS when the RX8 facelift happened, and they shift much differently to me. For the better.

Keith Tanner wrote: They certainly got better shocks as time went on, the NC3 is actually decent out of the box. I've not confirmed geometry changes but I haven't spent a lot of time digging. I know the control arms are the same part number. I'm not sure when the shift fork changed. IIRC, there was a matching change in the RX8. There are people on this forum who know more than I about that. The 2006 6-speed would snap the fork after about 200 racing laps, when driven by pro drivers who didn't have to pay for the car

Dammit. Back to the whole "driving with mechanical empathy."

Although I probably will any way since I'll depend on it to get me to work the next day.

I think you'd have to be particularly brutal to have to worry about the forks. We have countless laps on our 2006 with the supercharger and the trans has never been an issue.

We discovered the weak forks when racing the prototype MX5 Cup cars at Thunderhill in 2006. Interestingly, when we told the drivers to just leave the car in 4th to protect the remaining transmissions, they went faster. Sometimes a bit of empathy is a virtue...

Just get this shift knob and you'll be ok.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271213722708?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Did the spring rates or ride height change between the NC1/2/3?

I bought my NC1 used with newer OEM dampers and eibach springs and FCM sport bumpstops and cobalt sways set to soft F/R, but i don't like the ride and the handling is very understeery. 

In comparison, my 95 miata on stock springs, KYB excel Gs, honda civic rear bumpstops at all corners, and FM sways full stiff has a nice ride and beautiful balance and relatively controlled roll.

My current thinking to is go with Koni sports, stock springs, and taller bump stops for the NC1.  Folks have said that setup, with larger sways, is very comfortable, controlled, and competent. 

Brian Goodwin at Goodwin Racing should be able to recommend something for you, I am sure Keith will chime in here as well but the NC in particular is one of Brians specialties

Matt Huffman said:

Did the spring rates or ride height change between the NC1/2/3?

I bought my NC1 used with newer OEM dampers and eibach springs and FCM sport bumpstops and cobalt sways set to soft F/R, but i don't like the ride and the handling is very understeery. 

In comparison, my 95 miata on stock springs, KYB excel Gs, honda civic rear bumpstops at all corners, and FM sways full stiff has a nice ride and beautiful balance and relatively controlled roll.

My current thinking to is go with Koni sports, stock springs, and taller bump stops for the NC1.  Folks have said that setup, with larger sways, is very comfortable, controlled, and competent. 

What's your alignment numbers? A proper alignment will have a dramatic impact on how the car feels even on the stock suspension.

Guys, this is a FOUR YEAR OLD THREAD

Well, the cars are still around so it's still relevant to talk about them 

The OE shocks on the NC1 and NC2 were awful, especially the Bilsteins. Don't even bother trying to judge ride or handling when you've got a set on the car. Putting a set of Eibach springs on would make it worse.

The stock bump stops work fine on the NC, they're not as travel-constrained as the earlier cars. Konis with stock springs are okay, Tokico HTS with stock springs are better.

z31maniac said:

Matt Huffman said:

Did the spring rates or ride height change between the NC1/2/3?

I bought my NC1 used with newer OEM dampers and eibach springs and FCM sport bumpstops and cobalt sways set to soft F/R, but i don't like the ride and the handling is very understeery. 

In comparison, my 95 miata on stock springs, KYB excel Gs, honda civic rear bumpstops at all corners, and FM sways full stiff has a nice ride and beautiful balance and relatively controlled roll.

My current thinking to is go with Koni sports, stock springs, and taller bump stops for the NC1.  Folks have said that setup, with larger sways, is very comfortable, controlled, and competent. 

What's your alignment numbers? A proper alignment will have a dramatic impact on how the car feels even on the stock suspension.

For both cars, i'm max front caster and camber, half a degree less rear camber, zero toe all around.  For the NC1 that works out to around -2.0F and -1.5R camber.

Keith Tanner said:

Well, the cars are still around so it's still relevant to talk about them 

The OE shocks on the NC1 and NC2 were awful, especially the Bilsteins. Don't even bother trying to judge ride or handling when you've got a set on the car. Putting a set of Eibach springs on would make it worse.

The stock bump stops work fine on the NC, they're not as travel-constrained as the earlier cars. Konis with stock springs are okay, Tokico HTS with stock springs are better.

Do the Tokico HTS lower the car versus OEM dampers?  The Konis are reported to lower the car some.

Just wondering if the later model NC springs would be an upgrade, at all, to the earlier NC1 springs in terms of stiffness or ride height.  Everyone says the NC1 was the "monster truck".

The Tokicos do not lower the car, but they have better damping curves than the Konis. If you want to lower the car, do it right with some properly designed springs and matching shocks. Note that I'm referring to the generic Koni Sports here, the FM-valved ones are much better with stiffer springs but aren't suitable for stock springs.

The springs did change later, but the biggest difference was that Mazda finally got the valving right on the Bilsteins in 2013.