Need Brake Pad Suggestions - Track days and autocross - E36 LS1

Alright guys, I'm wrapping up my LS1 into E36 swap and starting to get it on the road.  In the swap process, I installed a Chase Bays boosterless brake setup.  boosterless brake setup  I expected to lose some brake power obviously, but I think I'm not far from where I need to be.  The car currently has unknown pads and I  want to try an extra-grabby track pad to see where it gets me.  I'll probably need to invest in a big brake kit eventually, but I want to try this first.  The car will be used primarily for track days and autocross.  So what track pad brands/models are people having success with lately?

*car currently has e36 m3 brakes

I run Hawk HP+ track/street pads on my track cars.  Not as grabby as a real race pad, but pretty good, and I've never overheated one...

I really just commented to say that car looks awesome and I want it!

I ran Carbotech XP12 on my ‘95 M3 with ducting to the spindle.  They were fine for the power level/speed of a 250hp M3.

I’m not sure if they will be up to the power level/speed of an LS1 M3.  If you will run high speed tracks, I’d recommend a big brake upgrade.  The Stoptech big brakes work for my friends M3 with an S54 swap.

Ordered a set of EBC yellows.  They were recommended from a few guys on the FB e36 group and they were $233 for all (4) corners.

I was about to recommend EBC yellows. They're some of the grabbiest pads out there, pro drifters like to run them in their handbrake calipers because of how grabby they are (even when cold).

GameboyRMH said:

I was about to recommend EBC yellows. They're some of the grabbiest pads out there, pro drifters like to run them in their handbrake calipers because of how grabby they are (even when cold).

solid endorsement.  Thanks!

I wouldn't run boosterless brakes.  Ugh.  Good luck.  Also, for track pads, you need to go hard core, especially with the power/torque you're making now.  Hawk DTC60 or 70's or PFC08 or 11's.

You're going to destroy those EBC pads, they aren't up to snuff for your power to weight ratio.  at all.

EBC Yellows worked well on Dr. Hess' Lotus Esprit, I think they'll survive.

Carbotech or GLoc. 

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Kinda doubt the Lotus Esprit put down the same kind of power/torque that the LS will.  I made 390rwhp out of my junkyard '02 LS1 with just a small cam, shorty headers and a 2.5" exhaust. Those also weigh less, don't they?  Plus they don't stay running long enough for the brakes to become an issue!  (ducking......)

I've always liked Carbotech pads.  In my 350z on r compounds Xp9/10s had enough fade resistance but I switched to XP12s to try and extend pad life.  Even XP14s work when cold on the street.

The downer on the 12/14 is that they grab so hard I'd get have the ABS go into ice mode if I didn't take care with the application to allow weight to transfer to the front tires.  HIGHLY recommended.

With that much motor and that little brake you need really serious pads.  I'd only be shopping stuff that pro race teams are running.

Awesome car!  I always love green on M3's for some reason, and fully-caged 4-doors are just plain cool.  I have no input on brake pads. 

docwyte said:

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Kinda doubt the Lotus Esprit put down the same kind of power/torque that the LS will.  I made 390rwhp out of my junkyard '02 LS1 with just a small cam, shorty headers and a 2.5" exhaust.  I made Those also weigh less, don't they?  Plus they don't stay running long enough for the brakes to become an issue!  (ducking......)

I know it's an old, not fair comparison..........but back when I used to track sport bikes, EBC's were generally panned as being terrible, like worse than OEM pads from any of the OEMs. 

Then you have to consider the weight:HP ratio, tires, the skill of the driver and speed of the track, etc. 

I agree that for really hard or sustained track use with a car like this a pure race pad would work better (especially with smaller discs), but I don't think the EBC Yellows will get gooey and fade, they'll more likely just disappear faster than usual while performing well. The Yellows can survive temps like a mid-range race pad (for a while), the fluid or rotors would likely give trouble first.

I'm going to run this car at smaller tracks like Firm and PBIR for a bit to iron out kinks.  It will likely get a BBK before it sees Sebring or Daytona, so this "what pad?" situation is relatively temporary.

E36 chassis with SBF here, track-only car.  I know nothing of cone-crushing.  Just road course tracks.

Did you say what tires?  I might have missed it.  I will assume you're in the 200 treadwear bracket, but if you're more like 300 and up, you can get away with less.  Also, depends on your driving style.  At this stage mine is pretty brake-intensive but I don't quite set things on fire.

I started with non-M brakes and Hawk DTC-60s on 200TW and ran that for a season.  I would have changed the brakes immediately, but I had so many other kinks to work out that I never got that handled.  The car just couldn't brake hard, as in, I had to get on them hard between marker 5 and marker 4 off the straight, etc. 

I'm guessing your E36 M3 brakes should be better.  Second season, I switched to E46 brakes, M3 calipers in the front and 325i in the rear, with brackets and rotors of course.  With full-on race tires, PFC 08s weren't enough so I went all the way to PFC 11. I was pretty well satisfied.  

Mind you this was with a tarted-up SBF that probably doesn't exceed 250HP at the crank.  You are probably more like 350?  Well you have Yellowstuffs now so it's time to give them a try. 

If it was me and those didn't work out, next thing I would use is the Hawk DTC60s or 70s, mostly because they're cheaper than PFC 01 or 11.  They don't last as long, but if I found out I was still underbraked, at least I would've invested less in the pads when I had to start over on the hardware side.

As of Tuesday there is a new blueprint 347 longblock sitting in the crate in my garage, with an engine dyno showing 400/400+.  I have the feeling I am going to be looking for bigger brakes this season as a result, but I haven't started thinking where I will go on that.

Your swap work there looks tidy and pretty sweet.  I hope you have a great time.

I'm a huge fan of Stoptech big brake kits.  They just work.  Everything bolts up and fits properly and there are a ton of brake pad choices for the ST40 caliper.

I tried the "dual purpose" Hawk HP+ pads right after I bought the non-M E36.  Made it exactly one track weekend, before I realized there is no such thing as a dual purpose pad.  Moved to Hawk HT10s with RA1s for two reasons, which I thought worked well.  Last year, I went to RS4s with the HT10s, and hated it.  Had trouble managing the initial bite (may be driving style), and the rear wanting to rotate.

This season I've swapped to all M suspension and braking components and just bought PFC08s.  Those seem to be the default answer for the majority of  the local E36 track guys.  You just have to be prepared to gasp at the cost.  I will try them out either at CMP or VIR in a few weeks, still figuring out which one to start the season with.  For the cost, I'm hoping they release some harnessed up driving talent that I haven't been able to locate previously :-)

I did install brake ducts early on which have helped extend pad life, and ensure I don't have any over-heating issues.

Well I’ve got some good news!  I forgot I had dialed the bias way to the rears when I installed the Chase Bays system. So I dialed it back to the front and now I have a nice amount of bite. I think once I install some yellow pads, I’ll be feeling pretty solid. 

It's not cheap, but rotor temperature paint isn't a terrible idea. It will let you know what your brakes are really doing and if you're outside the temperature recommendations for your pads. 

pinchvalve said:

Awesome car!  I always love green on M3's for some reason, and fully-caged 4-doors are just plain cool.  I have no input on brake pads. 

QFT. Agreed on all points. Love this build!

Lof8 said:

I'm going to run this car at smaller tracks like Firm and PBIR for a bit to iron out kinks.  It will likely get a BBK before it sees Sebring or Daytona, so this "what pad?" situation is relatively temporary.

Living in Gainesville, track days at the FIRM are easy. I’d love to connect out there one day to see this awesome build!

I’m not as close as Gainesville but I’ve been to a few track days at the Firm. It is quite laid back and convenient. I’ll need to get a limited slip diff in the car before I track it, but I aim to be at them fairly regularly. :)

wake74 said:

 

This season I've swapped to all M suspension and braking components and just bought PFC08s.  Those seem to be the default answer for the majority of  the local E36 track guys.  You just have to be prepared to gasp at the cost.  

The price is high, but they last me much longer than anything else I've tried.  I feel like they're so-so on bite, but I really like the release.  For brake testing, I vote VIR!  Hope you have fun.

In reply to JBasham :

Thanks for sharing your v8 experiences!  Is your car without a booster as well?  Are you planning any brake upgrade with the new motor?   I’m using 200 TW tires to answer your question above.