need your lotus elan+2 thoughts

I am considering picking up this project in trade for my 2002 race car. I've restored dozens of British cars including a couple of TVRs, but I know nothing about Lotus other than they are really cool. What do you guys think? Go for it, or will I loose my shirt on this thing? I can do the body work, fabrication and mechanical work, it's just the expense of putting this thing together that worries me. I might have a chance to pick up a late 60s TVR Vixen for half the price of the Lotus that needs about the same amount of work. http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/3877203725.html

The make-or-break part is the condition of the chassis. Those were mainly subjected to a smidgen of paint and then left to rust under the car where nobody sees it.

If the chassis has been redone or it has one of the chassis from places like Spyder Cars, then you might have a decent project on your hands. If it's got the customary glob of rust underneath then you're looking at a ton of work.

TBH if you can get a Vixen in similar shape for half the money that might be a better option if it's as complete as this car. If not, this one might be worth a look, but check the condition of the chassis thoroughly.

The Vixen is complete, probably will run, but the body and interior are sunbaked. I've been working the guy that owns the Vixen for several years. It keeps sitting and he keeps waffling on selling. If I up my offer a little I'm sure he'd let it go. Especially if I roll up in one of my restored TR8s and give the guy the Vixen deservers a good home speech. Best thing about the Vixen is that it is only a mile from my house.

Do you know if the chassis of the Vixen is suffering from "Blackpool rot" or if it's solid? IIRC the chassis on the Elans is easier to fix than on Vixens and the like as the latter have the chassis at least partially laminated in.

I'm always on the lookout for an Élan and they don't turn up very often. Plus 2s seem to be even rarer but nobody seems to love them.

The engines cost a lot to rebuild. This car seems overpriced and most of the value is probably in the engine. I'm not sure what a windshield would cost but I'd check that out first.

I'm guessing it's a Twin Cam, but I'm not Elan expert. The general consensus is you need a Lotus marque specialist to rebuilt one, and the the service life for the head is ~40,000mi, so they often need attention when you acquire one. I briefly considered rebuilding the Twin Cam in my Europa and was quoted $5k to bring it from the stock ~100hp to a whopping ~125hp. That's when I decided a Zetec swap made much more sense.

Speaking of swaps, since the +2's don't share the love or value of the standard Elan, and presuming it still has the stock Twin Cam(and it's complete) the engines bring about $2k in any condition, or about $5k if running(they're highly coveted by the vintage racers), so you may be able to sell of the stock engine, swap in a more powerful & reliable modern engine, and have a finished car that's worth as much or more than if it was restored to stock. Food for thought...

Yes, that's a Lotus twin cam.

A pretty popular modification in the UK especially on Elans is to swap it out for a Zetec for basically the reasons you mention.

I've always wondered how hard it would be to drop a Miata engine and transmission into an Elan. It seems like a natural choice. And, of course, it would probably be smarter to practice on a +2 first...

We have a 1970 +2 that needs a bit of everything. We just seperated the body from the frame and found it to be in far better shape than expected. The engine is missing from ours so the plan is to drop in a 4AGE, Zetec or Miata drivetrain. I should really post some pictures tonight.

Wayslow wrote: I should really post some pictures tonight.

^This.

This would be a better place to put your money:

http://allentown.craigslist.org/cto/3796353353.html

Well, it sitting in a commercial shop and the shop must have decided that there is no profit to be had from it. So I would start from there.

Assuming the frame is good to go and the drive-train is road ready. Also assuming that the body to this point is done to a useable level.

buy it for 6k

Paint runs about 5k

Interior about 3k

Details about 3k

So, you will be in for 17k and about 700 hours of free time. I value my free time at what I make at work, you pick your own but it still adds up to an "investment" of some sort.

So the question is what can you buy in this line that is finished and for how much? I am going to guess that a really nice specimen will be in the mid 20k-30k range?

So, assuming my assumptions are correct and as long as you don't begrudge the time investment, you should be pretty safe with this.

Sorry for posting under two different screen names. First post was because I signed on accidentally with a screen name I use on another forum, and it let me. I guess somewhere along the line I signed up here twice. Back to the car. It was at a garage, and the garage owner was restoring the car for himself. The current owner was owed money and took the Lotus in lieu of payment. Now he has a Lotus that he doesn't have the skills to put back together and wants to sell it to get his money out of it. He has a clean title for it, and told me what he knew about the car, which isn't much. I have to go lay eyes on it before I decide to proceed. Just looking for more general info for when I go look at it. Where's Dr. Hess when you need him? Isn't he the resident sleeping Lotus expert? It seems the car needs time consuming low cash outlay work. I can do the body and paint, trim work, reassembly no problem on my own. Figure just keep plugging away on it and continue to add value thru labor. As long as I don't get stuck with a rotted frame or a damaged beyond repair body, that will require spending real money. I'm liking the sell the engine and webers idea, and slap in either a Zetech or one of those new 1.0L 3cyl turbos coming out from Ford.

I have a copy of this book and it's pretty good. He covers both the Elan and +2.

Also...+2 on the "sell the engine and Webers".

petegossett wrote: I'm guessing it's a Twin Cam, but I'm not Elan expert. The general consensus is you need a Lotus marque specialist to rebuilt one, and the the service life for the head is ~40,000mi, so they often need attention when you acquire one. I briefly considered rebuilding the Twin Cam in my Europa and was quoted $5k to bring it from the stock ~100hp to a whopping ~125hp. That's when I decided a Zetec swap made much more sense.

What makes the twin cam so difficult and unique? I've seen one apart, and it's no worse than an Alfa engine- which can be done by yourself.

Heck, since the Alfa has removeable liners, I'd call them more complex.

Both have mechanical bucket lifters, twin cams, twin carbs (or fuel injection for the later Alfas), etc. The engines are technically identical- just some design details that makes the Lotus head flow better.

For any engine, if I were going to do a lot, I would invest in a decent valve tool set- for grinding the valves, and cutting the seats. Other than that, nothing is really out of the ordinary. The punch required to remove and replace the valve guides is even pretty easy to get.

Sorry about the side track- just doesn't seem as if the Lotus twin cam is something so bad.

Elans are going for big money. I dunno about the +2's, if that's different. The TC motor can suck up a LOT of money, if you let it, but it really isn't that complicated. The first motor I ever rebuilt was basically what is in there right now, a Lotus TC with a Weber head. Total rebuild cost was <$700 in about 1984, subbing out the machine shop work and with me doing the labor. Is that one all together, supposedly? Yeah, frame rust can be a problem, but not insurmountable. I would certainly get under there and look. The fiberglass on there looks to be OK, just needing finishing and paint.

I think you should get it. (We're enablers here.)

If I had my 'future shop' and the moola, I'd probably be dragging it home with a giant smile by now.

Man...I was just in Boston last week too...

Tell me more about the TVR.

...and keep us all updated if/when you start on the Lotus.

WAY too much $$ for that project. That money would buy a decent, running, 10 footer +2 any day. Maybe $2500.

In reply to alfadriver:

That's the "common wisdom" from Europa enthusiasts. My own opinion is this stems from years ago when your average machine shop had no idea how to handle anything beyond domestic V8s, and the myth just keeps getting perpetuated.

That said, I'd certainly hope a Twin Cam specialist would provide a better end result - but you're certainly going to pay to find out.