New head installed,and now won't start

Hey guys,

I just got the new head,gasket,timing belt, etc done on my 1990 Mitsubishi van,and I think I have it close enough to timed correctly that I should get at least a cough out of this thing but nothing. The guy I bought the head from is some what of an expert in these mitsu's and he says the hydraulic lifter need to get some oil in them before they will open the valves enough for it to start. He suggested just trying it over and over til they get enough oil in them, but I have been trying off and on for a while now with no luck. I know I am getting spark, and fuel, but why no fire? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

Just checked, no compression!!! Why??

Chris

Valves are not closing. Something it bound up in the valvetrain but I'm afraid Im not familiar enough with that motor to suggest anything beyond that.

Could also be that the valve timing is terribly out so that the valves are open during the compression stroke.

I would start with rechecking the valve timing..

No compression in any cylinder?

Go back to basics, start over before getting pissed or pulling it apart.

Make sure the timing marks are where they should be and not 180 out. Check #1 cylinder is at TDC visually, don't rely on the crank location; look down the hole and use a stick to verify its position.

Read that chapter in the book one more time.

Dan

914Driver wrote: No compression in any cylinder? Go back to basics, start over before getting pissed or pulling it apart. Make sure the timing marks are where they should be and not 180 out. Check #1 cylinder is at TDC visually, don't rely on the crank location; look down the hole and use a stick to verify its position. Read that chapter in the book one more time. Dan

This. Start at step one and work your way through it.

I am sure I had the number one cylinder at TDC when I put the head on. I know it didn't move while doing the timing belt. When turning the engine over by hand after doing the timing belt the marks didn't line up with one rotation of the cam gear which did seem odd at first, but not when I thought about it a second. They did however line back up again after I think three full rotations of the cam gear. Sound right?

I was concerned before bolting the head down that I had the cam gear lined up with its timing mark as I was worried that if it weren't I could bend the valves on either 1 or 4 with them both being fully up. Well it turns out the engine is non-interference so no worries. I do remember however that at least one if not both valves on number one were slightly open with the cam gear on its timing mark. Does that seem odd? The seller of the head emailed me back last night and told me to look to see if the lifters are installed upside down. Why would that matter? I mean I know it would be wrong, but to me they would just stay collapsed and not get any oil in them to pump up. They sure wouldn't hold the valves open like that. Could the cam be wrong? I ask because I bought the head fully dressed with the cam,and rockers all installed. I just bolted the intake on,and put the whole thing on the engine. I am going nuts with this thing!!!

Chris

What you are saying about the timing marks is odd. A cam gear or pulley always has exactly twice as many teeth as the crank. So two complete revolutions of the crank will make one complete revolution of the cam. One revolution of the crank will have the cam 180* from the tdc marks of the cam.

Did you use your original pulley on the new head ir did it come with a pulley? Maybe it has the wrong number of teeth?

Original pulley with the new head.

Also what you said about the valves for cyl 1 being open could just mean that the cam is 180 out. If the valves on 1 were slightly open and the valves for cyl 4 were closed, you would be 180 from tdc of cyl 1, assuming everything else is working normally.

Which timing marks are you using? the 2.4 we had in the shop a few weeks back was giving one of my guys a headache with not starting after a timing belt until we found online that you need to use the crank timing marks on the timing cover, not the notches on the back of the gear and the block.

I may still have the pictures we found on the other computer which isn't hooked up right now if you need them.

I did the timing belt exactly how it shows in the factory shop manual and it showed lining up the notch in the crank mounted timing gear with a pointer on the block. If it was to be done with the mark on the timing belt cover I have no idea how you would see it as it would be hidden.

did you precharge the lifters? (soak them in oil) if not you may have to pull the spark plugs and crank it over until all the air is bled out of them when they are empty of oil, they wont allow the valve to open hope this helps

I didn't but the issue I am having is not one with the valves are not opening ,but rather it seems they are open when I don't want them to be causing no compression.

well thats a mechanical timing issue (sure sounds like it) go back and start again on your cam/crank timing marks

Just spoke to the guy I bought the head from and he knows what is wrong. He checked the paperwork his partner had from when they put the head together,and it turns out he used valves for mechanical rockers instead of the hydraulic ones on this head, so they are staying open because they are too long. He wants me to send it back to him,and he will fix it all up, and send it back ready to go with a fresh set of gaskets to bolt it all back on. Not what I wanted to hear as now I need to do the whole job over again. I am going to be good at this by the time I am done.

Chris

Oh, crap.

Sorry to hear that, the only thing worse than doing it the first time is doing it the second.

At least he admitted the error. Good for PR anyway.

Now ya know.

Dan

Who the hell sends out a valve job with out a leak test! Before you put the repaired one on at least do the water or gas puddle test. Put head with combustion chamber up fill with gas or water (your choice) let sit did it run out the ports? If so why?. Shop I worked at as a kid used a rubber plug in the port with a vacuum line to check the seal on every port on every head. Any leaks found were fixed before it left. When i do heads i do the same.

Chech the head you pull off before you send it back too just to be sure theres not something else.

Funny thing is, Tony I asked him if the valves were maybe leaking, and he assured me that they always leak test every head before leaving the shop. I guess this one must have crawled out of the shop by itself before getting tested. I am a bit pissed as I paid good money for this head, and I should be driving the van now, not doing the whole job again, and having to wait another few weeks before doing so. It wasn't a valve job either, I bought a completely new head from him, and he had it already fully dressed, and ready to bolt on according to him. Well between this problem, and the missing screw in plug at the back of the head that allowed about a quart of oil to leak all over my garage this isn't turning out so well. Should have just put the 13B in it after all.

Oil leak? That's karma telling you that you should have bought a British car this time. I know where you can get a sweet TR8.

They probably did test it, before the cam and rockers were installed .....fail...

tr8todd wrote: Oil leak? That's karma telling you that you should have bought a British car this time. I know where you can get a sweet TR8.

No British cars for me!!! You have all of them in MA anyway.

Toyman01 wrote: Oh, crap. Sorry to hear that, the only thing faster than doing it the first time is doing it the second.

FTFY

Sorry, we've been there

glueguy wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: Oh, crap. Sorry to hear that, the only thing faster than doing it the first time is doing it the second.

FTFY Sorry, we've been there

Been there also. Sorry man, but like you said you will have it down pat.