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sanman
sanman HalfDork
4/11/16 7:55 p.m.

Hi all,

A question for the commuters out there among. What is the best way to put a newish sporty DD in my driveway. I am tired of my old cars and in a position where I csn do so. The facts:

I have the mr2 (now with 100% more working clutch) that still needs timing belt, suspension, and a general refresh.

I now inherited my mother's 2006 CRV with 140 as a part time DD, Home depot truck,winter snow duty, etc and it runs just fine.

However, I am bored and the mr2 has more stuff to fix than I have time now that I bought my foreclosure fixer upper house that drains my free time.

So, I want some cheap thrills:

Likely 2013 ish mustang or camaro v6, brz/86,genesis coupe, g37, maybe a miata. The question is do I lease or buy 3 yrs used with lowish miles. Leasing opens up new turbo cars that I do not want to own (gti, fist/fost and other eco boost cars).

What is the cheapest way to have the most DD fun for an up to 60 mile commute?

One last point: It may need to be autotragic as Mrs Sanman is entertaining having something fun to drive and we may split time in the car. She went from driving a corolla to wanting the new mustang I was looking at.

petegossett
petegossett UltimaDork
4/11/16 8:42 p.m.

In reply to sanman:

What's your annual mileage? If you're over 15k/year forget about a lease.

sanman
sanman HalfDork
4/11/16 8:48 p.m.

Over 15k, but I can split the miles with the CRV. So, no problems there.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve MegaDork
4/11/16 8:57 p.m.

I leased my FiST for under $220 per month. Buying makes more financial sense in the long run, but if you want a low monthly payment and have the flexibility to make a change or walk away after 2-3 years, then leasing might work for you.

asoduk
asoduk Reader
4/11/16 9:05 p.m.

Most fun for 60 miles? Something big and comfy with a good stereo. Add to that some good podcasts, audiobooks, and music. Lexus LS or GS would be my pick.

sanman
sanman HalfDork
4/11/16 9:14 p.m.

Well, my commute ranges from 2-60 Miles in the region I cover. I do want something bigger for road trips to ny/nj (take the corolla mostly now) which is why I was leaning towards mustang or camaro, s197 mustangs are super comfortable for me.

Happy Carmore
Happy Carmore MegaDork
4/12/16 5:42 a.m.

Never used them, but this may be of some use to you.

Leasehackr.com

Good information on there and this is how they refer to a Toyota Corolla....

Klayfish
Klayfish UberDork
4/12/16 6:09 a.m.

I think some of that depends on exactly what you want to buy/lease. What's the depreciation curve like on it? All cars take a significant hit as soon as they go from "new" to "used", but some are much bigger than others. If it's a car that takes a monster hit right away, but then levels out, I'd buy lightly used. Buying would also keep you from having to worry about keeping it under 15k.

However, leasing does have advantages. If you really want a brand new car and don't want to worry about having it out of warranty, then lease. Leasing typically costs more than owning overall, but if you do it smart it won't be horrendous.

Comes down to thing like how much do you want that new car smell? With my commute of 110 miles roundtrip, leasing is completely out for me. But I did the lightly used thing when I got my FoST and got one heck of a bargain.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
4/12/16 8:44 a.m.

After seeing the way my BRZ value has TANKED, I'd be inclined to lease the aforementioned vehicles so you don't get holding the depreciation.

I drove my 2013 GT Mustang (special order car) for 7 months and 8000 miles, and received $500 less for trade-in then when I purchased it.

The BRZ after 1.5 years and 17k miles, trade-in is approx 60% of the original purchase price. I've done lots of car buying/swapping/trading the last 6-7 years and have never had a car that had the value fall through the floor like this.

Happy Carmore
Happy Carmore MegaDork
4/12/16 8:47 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac:

You should try not-Wrangler/Grand Cherokee Chrysler products...

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim UltimaDork
4/12/16 9:22 a.m.

My main concern with leases is that if your circumstances change, you'll have a hard time getting out of one. If you bought and financed the car, you can still sell it on (just coordinate with your lender), although it might be harder if you're upside down.

bastomatic
bastomatic UltraDork
4/12/16 9:39 a.m.
z31maniac wrote: After seeing the way my BRZ value has TANKED, I'd be inclined to lease the aforementioned vehicles so you don't get holding the depreciation. I drove my 2013 GT Mustang (special order car) for 7 months and 8000 miles, and received $500 less for trade-in then when I purchased it. The BRZ after 1.5 years and 17k miles, trade-in is approx 60% of the original purchase price. I've done lots of car buying/swapping/trading the last 6-7 years and have never had a car that had the value fall through the floor like this.

Most of the BRZs I see for sale around here are in the $18-20k range used for low miles. Sound right?

I'd lease if newness is important, since you can find some stellar deals and sometimes get good money off the residual when buying at end of lease.

In the end though, it's hard to beat the value of a slightly used car.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
4/12/16 9:58 a.m.
bastomatic wrote:
z31maniac wrote: After seeing the way my BRZ value has TANKED, I'd be inclined to lease the aforementioned vehicles so you don't get holding the depreciation. I drove my 2013 GT Mustang (special order car) for 7 months and 8000 miles, and received $500 less for trade-in then when I purchased it. The BRZ after 1.5 years and 17k miles, trade-in is approx 60% of the original purchase price. I've done lots of car buying/swapping/trading the last 6-7 years and have never had a car that had the value fall through the floor like this.
Most of the BRZs I see for sale around here are in the $18-20k range used for low miles. Sound right? I'd lease if newness is important, since you can find some stellar deals and sometimes get good money off the residual when buying at end of lease. In the end though, it's hard to beat the value of a slightly used car.

That was basically the value the dealership told me for trade value based on not seeing the car. So it could have been more, but wasn't going to bother with a 4hr roundtrip to look at their car if I already knew the most they would give me.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
4/12/16 10:27 a.m.
z31maniac wrote: After seeing the way my BRZ value has TANKED, I'd be inclined to lease the aforementioned vehicles so you don't get holding the depreciation.

And that's the crux of the biscuit for a non-business lease / purchase decision. It's somewhat analogous to buying vs renting a house.

Depreciation only really matters if you plan to get rid of the car in less than 5-6 years. The longer you keep a car, the less depreciation matters. Here is my take on the strategy:

  • If you are going to want a new car every 3-4 years, lease.

  • If you plan to keep a car for 5-6 years, buy a 2-3 year old lightly-used lease return. I also do this for secondary vehicles like my van, which gets used a couple times a month / <5,000 miles per year.

  • If it's a daily that you plan to keep until it dies, buy new.

FSP_ZX2
FSP_ZX2 Dork
4/12/16 11:20 a.m.
petegossett wrote: In reply to sanman: What's your annual mileage? If you're over 15k/year forget about a lease.

High miles is EXACTLY a reason TO LEASE. You control your costs and can walk away at the end. It costs money to drive a lot of miles--when you do it on a traditional finance loan, you assume all the depreciation and costs. With the lease, it's all built in and there is an end point where you will be "even" at worst. It comes down to if you want to assume the risk of resale or hang it on the lease-holder/lender. Three things depreciate the car: Age. Miles. Condition. Those you can somewhat control. The 4th is the market...if your car gets on "60 Minutes" because they say its a death trap...Or if the company goes out of business (Scion/Saturn/Pontiac etc.), the resale value falls to the floor quicker than the prom queen's dress. That's on you if you "own" it. It's not a problem is you lease it...

skierd
skierd SuperDork
4/12/16 11:33 a.m.
FSP_ZX2 wrote:
petegossett wrote: In reply to sanman: What's your annual mileage? If you're over 15k/year forget about a lease.
High miles is EXACTLY a reason TO LEASE. You control your costs and can walk away at the end. It costs money to drive a lot of miles--when you do it on a traditional finance loan, you assume all the depreciation and costs. With the lease, it's all built in and there is an end point where you will be "even" at worst. It comes down to if you want to assume the risk of resale or hang it on the lease-holder/lender. Three things depreciate the car: Age. Miles. Condition. Those you can somewhat control. The 4th is the market...is your car gets on "60 Minutes" because they say its a death trap...the resale value falls quicker than the prom queen's dress. That's on you is you "own" it. It's not a problem is you lease it...

Right up till you cross over the 15k-18k mile mark and have to pay the overage rate.

My buying habits say I should lease as I love getting a new car, but i drive close to 25k a year thanks to having a sales job. Lightly used CPO car that depreciates slowly ftw?

FSP_ZX2
FSP_ZX2 Dork
4/12/16 11:40 a.m.
skierd wrote:
FSP_ZX2 wrote:
petegossett wrote: In reply to sanman: What's your annual mileage? If you're over 15k/year forget about a lease.
High miles is EXACTLY a reason TO LEASE. You control your costs and can walk away at the end. It costs money to drive a lot of miles--when you do it on a traditional finance loan, you assume all the depreciation and costs. With the lease, it's all built in and there is an end point where you will be "even" at worst. It comes down to if you want to assume the risk of resale or hang it on the lease-holder/lender. Three things depreciate the car: Age. Miles. Condition. Those you can somewhat control. The 4th is the market...is your car gets on "60 Minutes" because they say its a death trap...the resale value falls quicker than the prom queen's dress. That's on you is you "own" it. It's not a problem is you lease it...
Right up till you cross over the 15k-18k mile mark and have to pay the overage rate. My buying habits say I should lease as I love getting a new car, but i drive close to 25k a year thanks to having a sales job. Lightly used CPO car that depreciates slowly ftw?

You build in the miles up front. Tell them that you drive XX,XXX miles a year. They build it in...payment goes up, residual goes down. It's easy if you know what your driving habits are. I lease a 2014 Accord EX 6-speed...a $25K car...36/mo-60K miles and $350/mo with nothing down--even covered my 1st payment and TTL. My only exposure is maintenance and what might happen after the warranty goes at 36K (which I could have extended for additional cost). At 36 months I walk away and do it again...and might have some equity. If not...I am no worse than even. (The cars that have good resale--like the Accord--lease best. A lease is nothing more than payments on the difference between the selling price today and the guaranteed future value / residual, which is set by the manufacturer).

DanyloS
DanyloS Reader
4/12/16 12:15 p.m.

Obviously this isn't the fun answer but why not pocket the $ you would be spending on the lease and either put it into the house project or since you don't have time to work on the MR2 use the lease/used purchase funds to pay and have it done

Happy Carmore
Happy Carmore MegaDork
4/12/16 12:44 p.m.

In reply to DanyloS:

A nice running MR2 sounds fun to me...

dyintorace
dyintorace UberDork
4/12/16 2:29 p.m.

How about combining the 2? I just read this article today.

Leasing used Cars

By Gautham Nagesh and

John D. Stoll

Updated April 11, 2016 8:38 p.m. ET

98 COMMENTS

Aspiring Lexus owners may have a hard time refusing Brendan Harrington’s latest offer: Get a lightly used version of one of the hottest luxury SUVs in America for as little as $370 a month.

The terms—offered by Mr. Harrington’s Longo Lexus dealership near Los Angeles—come as part of a lease deal on a three-year-old RX 350 with 35,700 miles on the odometer. Spanning 36 months and 45,000 miles of use, the lease requires little money up front and is potentially hundreds of dollars less than a comparatively equipped new model sold at similar terms.

Inventories of used cars in good condition are soaring in the U.S., and finance companies and dealers are scrambling to offer leases as a way to make payments affordable for people who don’t qualify for cheap deals on new cars or those looking to save cash.

New-car sales gained steam in recent years, creating a glut of used vehicles. Those inventories are problematic for auto makers hoping to maintain a record sales pace on fresh sheet metal and remain profitable in the process.

Sales of used cars rose 7% in the first quarter, according to the National Automobile Dealers Association, but wholesale pricing fell during each of those months verus 2015, Manheim Consulting data shows. Manheim estimates used-vehicle supply will hit records in during a three-year period starting in 2016.

ENLARGE

. Lower used-car prices will eventually dent new-car pricing power, analysts said.

As auto makers continue to subsidize car payments with discounts, reduced interest rates and cheap lease terms, car owners are turning in relatively new vehicles that could be attractive to those in the pre-owned market. But these products are out of reach for many buyers due to the size of monthly payments on a nonsubsidized vehicle loan.

This is where leasing comes in, particularly on vehicles with low miles and high sticker prices. The finance company estimates the vehicle’s value at the end of the term and sets a rate based on that residual. The lease takes risk and repair bills off the table.

“[When] buying a used car, what is the No. 1 concern?” Mr. Harrington, who is president of Longo Toyota and Lexus, said. “Fear of the unknown—has the dealer told me everything?”

Mr. Harrington wasn't leasing used Lexus products at the beginning of the year. By March, 10% of his pre-owned sales came from leases.

Sales managers historically avoided used leases because they were difficult to calculate, but greater access to auction results and real-time sales data is changing dealers’ attitudes. Mr. Harrington, for instance, has developed his own software to aid the process.

More lenders also are getting in the game. Ally Financial Inc., one of the nation’s largest lenders and a former subsidiary of General Motors Co., started offering used leases in March.

The company’s auto-finance president, Tim Russi, estimates eventually one-third of the 20 million-plus used-car purchases that are financed annually could be leases. If this increases demand for used cars, it could bolster their market value.

“I think this is good for the holistic system,” he said.

One of Ally’s clients is Bermont Motors Inc., a used-vehicle dealer near Philadelphia. It has a 2014 Jeep Wrangler on its lot that would cost $544 monthly with a five-year loan, for example. Agreeing to a shorter-term lease would push the payment down to $364 monthly.

Ale Resnik, co-founder of Beepi Inc., an online used-car retailer, said the Silicon Valley company will start leasing later this month as a result of its Ally partnership. His service, which started selling cars two years ago, is aimed at younger buyers typically looking to establish credit.

“Data shows millennials are the ones driving car sales growth in new and used vehicles, and they need more options that enable their freedom,” Mr. Resnik said. Leasing accomplishes that.

The typical used-car lessee has a 635 credit score, 80 points lower than a new-car buyer, according to Experian PLC, which produces credit reports. While only 3.8% of vehicle leases written in the fourth quarter of 2016 were on used vehicles, that number is up a half percentage point compared with the second quarter of 2015.

More than 16% of vehicles purchased—new and used—in the final three months of 2015 were leased, compared with 11.5% in the same period in 2012. Used-vehicle supply was extremely thin four years ago following a sales drought during the financial crisis.

The bet on leasing could turn sour if used vehicle prices take a dramatic turn. But, lenders like Ally, say they are prepared to handle the downside especially because used cars don’t depreciate as fast new ones.For customers, it is a no-lose situation, said Mr. Harrington. “Here’s the beauty of a lease: It’s not your car.”

chrispy
chrispy HalfDork
4/12/16 3:27 p.m.

This thread is very timely to my situation. Currently commuting 60 miles/day in a 2005 Accord with over 140,000 miles and am finally in a place to get a "new" car for myself, (SWMBO always seems to end up with the newer car).

paranoid_android74
paranoid_android74 SuperDork
4/12/16 4:14 p.m.

I started some preliminary vehicle shopping recently as well.

In my mind I was set on buying used. Certified pre owned even depending on the vehicle. Now I'm really confused.

Maybe a "what car" thread is the place to start...

sanman
sanman HalfDork
4/12/16 11:28 p.m.

In reply to DanyloS:

Because that leaves me commuting in a 10 yr old car and a 25 yr old car. What I need is something new that can take a good number of miles in a reliable fashion and be disposed of easily and without much investment. I would prefer it to be fun as,the MR2 is limited in its capabilities as it sits (worn bushings and struts, old waterpump and timing belt, old tires).

sanman
sanman HalfDork
4/12/16 11:35 p.m.

In reply to Duke:

It is a DD. The cr-v will be kept till it dies, but the 20k a yr I do is a lot for it and I need as my home depot errand car as well as bad weather car for the winter. The sporty car will be the primary good weather DD. I don't need to get rid of it but likely will if circumstances change (if I make a little person in the next few years)

Interestingly, I saw a base 2016 mustang v6 advertised for under 20k new. That really has me tempted.

JBasham
JBasham New Reader
4/13/16 3:38 p.m.

The thing I didn't like about leasing a new car was the formulas. They have one percentage for how much of the car's value I will "use" by driving it for 3 years. Then they take that dollar amount, and calculate the equivalent of a loan for that money using a "money factor." Sometimes I can reduce that money factor by paying more up-front.

The "deals" in leasing for me only come about when I can find a car I want and the manufacturer's leasing program is "pushing" the car through an unrealistic depreciation factor, or a subsidized money factor. Or when, for some reason, I'm bound and determined to acquire a car with iffy reliability that I don't want to own once it's out of warranty.

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