Newer Civic Si or (gasp) Type R instead of an EF/EG/CRX?

ClearWaterMS said:

have you looked at the value of Elise (is plural of Elise, Elise Eli, Elises) I was eye'ing one on Cars and Bids and I fully expect that it will close at $50k while that isn't a 997.2 its more than a 997.1S these days.  

I occasionally check Hagerty, and they list a condition three Elise around $35k and I think/am hoping it's worth about that much.

It sounds like you're looking for a cost effective daily that can do some light track work if needed. 

ATS-V? 

335/340 with ZHP (I think later models call it the handling and cooling pack)

I'm sure it's a really competent car, but I can't get over looks, sorry.

VW GTI / GLI get the DSG so your wife can drive it

 

if you're deciding between the SI and the previous gen Type R i would choose the SI.  The previous gen Type R looks too much like a boy racer and i would prefer something a bit more subdued for an every day car.  a 16/17 Golf R would also fit the bill and could probably be had for similar money.  

Yeah, the more I look at GTIs the more I prefer the more subtle appearance. It's not that I don't have cars that stand out here in truckland a lot, but the CTR is on a different level.

I've owned most of the above, errr, kind of: 

-1988 CRX Si
-1998 EK Civic Hatch DX
-1996 DC2 Integra GS-R
-2018 Civic Si
-2021 Civic Type R

If I had to pick my favorites: 

-1998 EK hatch
-2018 Civic Si

Both of them were a joy to drive on the street. Both were stock when I bought them. The 2016+ Civic Si needed absolutely nothing. That car is just peppy enough to be fun while being extremely easy to live with everyday. After owning both an Si and a Type R, the Type R is a lot more car with considerably more performance, but for the money, I thought the Si was a better value. If we're being honest, the Type R was also fairly easy to live with and would have kept it if it didn't hurt my knee to drive... but the Si is 90% of the fun of the Type R, for considerably less money. My only complaint is Honda's stupid obsession with moonroofs being in all Si models, robbing them of precious headroom. I fit well in the Civic Si sedan, but I didn't really fit in the coupe because of the moonroof... that's one thing the Type R has going for it: no moonroof and tons of headroom. 

The EK needed some mods to be fun... mainly in the ergonomics department. I'm not sure what size you are, but old Honda's are certainly not big guy friendly. I'm 6'2", 217 lbs... the EK had plenty of headroom, but the seats were literally the worst seats I've ever experienced in a vehicle- outside of maybe the Humvee's I used to drive back in the military, where they just tacked a couple cushions into a piece of metal. Reaching for the shifter was awkward- everything was awkward at first... I then replaced the seats with a set of Integra seats (lowers you a couple inches) and extended the shifter by a couple inches and all was well! I added a set of OEM sway bars (the EK hatches don't come with sway bars at all) and bigger brakes from an EX front/DC2 rear and that little car was a ton of fun to pitch around! Good Lord was it slow... but it made getting up to 60mph an event. For whatever reason, I just liked that car. I can only imagine I might feel the same about an EG? 

I still have my DC2 (long build thread on here), but I don't know that I'll be keeping it much longer. Solving small old Honda ergonomics has proved to be problematic for someone of my size and long term injuries- specifically the ones with lower rooflines and moonroofs. Because of this, I wouldn't buy another DC2 and I certainly wouldn't buy another CRX unless it was a slicktop with a swap... even then, I like power steering. I feel like an EG hatch is a bigger, more usable place to be than a CRX, with very little weight penalty and power steering... 

I would also add that over the past few years, I've built several old wishbone Honda's... parts for them are starting to get expensive. For the money I've sank into my Integra, I could have bought a brand new Si. That fact isn't lost on me. If someone asked me if I would build another old Honda or just buy a new Si, I would just buy a new Si. 

I am not sure why, but I see Audi A3 cheaper than GTIs 2015+. AWD and basically same engine and platform. 

So I've been mostly shopping for GTIs and Golf Rs on CarMax, mainly because that would allow me to get a Southern/Southwestern car without having to deal with the logistics myself.

Yet, there doesn't seem to be much price difference between those and one of the older Type Rs.

Hey, most of the F&F gang isn't that much younger than me.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

Whatever you do- DO NOT test drive an Elantra N. 

In reply to thashane :

For some reason, it just doesn't appeal to me.

Back to the Type R - is there any information out there on how corrosion resistant they are? It looks like the better deals often have registration history in the rust/salt belt.

Well, I guess it's time to E36 M3 or get off the pot as they say.

After I couldn't make the logistics work with Jerry's 944 Turbo, it was time to try and work something out with a car closer to me that I can go look at in between a lot of work travel I have coming up.

Anyway, just put in a shipping order with Carmax for an '18 Type R w/ about 48k on the odometer. It's at the cheaper end of their offerings and it's coming from CT, but the Carfax/Autocheck shows that it's spent most of its life other than the last year out in CA.

The car in question: https://www.carmax.com/car/24749275

You picked the right color for a CTR.  Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on life with it. 

"Price unavailable", is that like "if you have to ask..."  lol!

In reply to Sonic :

Thanks - I would've preferred a black one as it hides some of the "crashed into the tacky aisle at Pep Boys" looks, but as you said, white is the traditional colour. We'll see how I like the ergonomics as that's been an issue with some of the Japanese econo-box derived cars in the past like my Evo X.

docwyte said:

"Price unavailable", is that like "if you have to ask..."  lol!

I think they took the price down once I reserved it by paying for shipping. It is/was priced at $34k.

Oh, and apparently the car spent two years up in CT.

2022 was two years ago. Who knew?

Looks like a FL5 CTR accessory shift knob with aftermarket shifter collar.  It may have some extra shifter bits installed too.  

Sometimes people post what R-# they have on the forums.  The first owner of this CTR reported issues with 2nd gear.

https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/the-infamous-2nd-gear-crunch.12890/page-49#post-371995

Sometimes people can fix it with new master cylinder or adjusting the clutch pedal.  Bottom line, check for issues shifting with 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears when you test drive.

Good Luck.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

I'll be curious what you think of the ergonomics of the FK8 CTR. I also have a problem with the ergonomics found in many (mostly FWD based) Japanese cars. The CTR hurt my right knee to drive, but I didn't necessarily believe it was because of the seating position, so much as the seat rake and more aggressive lower bolsters. Otherwise, the seating position wasn't bad. Certainly better than the Evo X- not sure if you had the same problem- I felt like my arms were too stretched out in the Evo X (the wheel should have been closer/telescoping); to which the CTR is an improvement in that area. 

I know the FK8 CTR's have a bit of an issue with heat management on track (I never tracked mine- I don't believe they are known to blow motors, but lots of reports of them going into limp mode on track), but aside from that, it does sound like it's probably a good fit for what you're looking for. Aside from track duties, it is actually a very livable, easy to drive, fun/engaging, highly usable daily. 

If you weren't looking for something you wanted to track, I would also suggest looking into a Mazda 3 Turbo. When I sold my CTR, I replaced it with a Mazda 3 Turbo. It's not a track car, but it was on my list of top 3 best daily drivers I've ever owned. Perfect ergonomics (unless you're in the back seat, which is lacking much space). Excellent seats and seating position. Great driving dynamics. 320 ft-lbs of torque at a low RPM. Upscale interior. Despite being an automatic, the 6AT in that car is very intuitive/reactive. No "rare car fear"- park it wherever you want. The biggest downsides were some of the early ones (like mine, unfortunately) had valve seal problems (i.e. burned oil)- which I understand they fixed later on- and the hatch version didn't have the best rearward visibility. I've owned a CTR, 2 Golf R's (MK6 and MK7) and a Focus RS... if you asked me to pick a hot/warm hatch as a daily, it would be a close call between the MK7 Golf R and the Mazda 3 Turbo (although I might buy the sedan for better visibility)... if I wanted to track it, CTR or Focus RS... if I wanted to do both, and knee pain wasn't a factor, CTR. 

In reply to BoxheadTim :

Sounds like a great deal.  So excited to hear your thoughts.   I've test driven a few and they make me smile..

Got the notification from CarMax yesterday that it's on the truck. Should be at the local CarMax just in time when I return from the next work jollies, if not earlier.

 In reply to BLRB :

This is why I love this forum. I never even thought about checking the R # and see if anybody posted about the car. I don't think the second or third owner posted about the car, but the first owner definitely did. Thanks for the link!

Based on those posts, the original owner may have bought a warranty extension from Honda, does anybody know if that would transfer to future owners as well if it's an actual Honda warranty? Oh, and I better check for other mods and if the catch can is still there.

In reply to roninsoldier83 :

I had the same issue with the Evo X that you described. The steering wheel on those really should telescope, at least for people like me who don't have suitably simian arm lengths. The resulting awkward seating position caused me a bunch of arthritis-related knee issues, which was the main reason I sold it.

I'm aware of the heat issues on the track with the CTR, and I've been spending some time researching them - mostly by trying to filter out forum snake oil. If I actually like the car, at least an upgraded radiator and an oil cooler with gauges are going to be on the cards.

We'll see how I like the ergonomics as I also have to be very careful regarding knee issues - one of the ideas for getting a car like this is that I still want to do my epic road trip to hit tracks all over the US including the West Coast, but that's not really workable if a couple of hours in a car leave me limping.

In reply to Caprigrip :

I'll definitely report back. Seems like everybody who drove them really likes them, so I've got high hopes.

I'm looking forward to your experiences with this one.  

Enjoy your Honda!

In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :

Thank you! First we have to figure out if it's actually for me or not. I certainly hope it is if the ergonomics work for me.

Got an update from CarMax earlier today that it has been delivered to the local branch. Hopefully I'll be able to drive it on Saturday. 

When I booked and paid for the transfer, the latest the car was supposed to be available for a test drive was tomorrow. So far I haven't heard a peep since the notification that the car made it to the branch. I had assumed that CarMax would be open on Sunday, but they are not. So unless they call me by early afternoon tomorrow we'll have a scheduling problem as I can't just disappear from work for half a day at no notice during the week. I'm not sure if they're going to be willing to hold the car for me for an entire week either, so I'm hoping we're not going to end up having that discussion.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

The sales manager's son probably just asked him to bring it home for the weekend. I'm sure everything will be fine. 

In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :

Probably. Got to make sure it's still got all the horsies under the hood, after all.

And in the meantime I can amuse myself by browsing PCA Mart.

Got the appointment for the test drive after work today. Wife reminded me to bring the helmet to make sure I fit in it with the helmet on . 

I just replaced my beloved 540i and 335i DD's with a tenth gen SI and honestly really honestly I couldn't be happier. Economy, safety, reliability, features, and acceptable toddler space/toddler resistant interior surfaces have become more important to me than the horsepower or driving experience. That said the driving experience is incredible and the power is okay... a tune, clutch, and exhaust away from perfection. 

The night I bought it I summed it up in two sentences:

This is the okayest berkeleying car ever!

Neat! It has a boost gauge. There's SO MUCH STORAGE!

If you want a lite supercar get the Type R. If you want a super car get the SI 

Actually I'm just cheap the Type R is a fine daily too just spendy for my taste. 

Mayby I am Ill informed by the interwebs engine teardown channels - as I understand it the 1.5 turbo in the Civic SI, and much more so the 2.0 turbo in the Veloster are not at all robust engines. 

Byrneon27 said:

I just replaced my beloved 540i and 335i DD's with a tenth gen SI and honestly really honestly I couldn't be happier. Economy, safety, reliability, features, and acceptable toddler space/toddler resistant interior surfaces have become more important to me than the horsepower or driving experience. That said the driving experience is incredible and the power is okay... a tune, clutch, and exhaust away from perfection. 

 

The night I bought it I summed it up in two sentences:

This is the okayest berkeleying car ever!

Neat! It has a boost gauge. There's SO MUCH STORAGE!

 

If you want a lite supercar get the Type R. If you want a super car get the SI 

Actually I'm just cheap the Type R is a fine daily too just spendy for my taste. 

Well said! 

Although as someone that has owned both, while storage is good in the Si (I had the sedan), the Type R (hatch) was in a different league. I bought my Si locally, but for the Type R I did a fly-and-drive during the middle of winter. Since the Type R comes with summer tires, I had Tire Rack send a set of winter wheels/tires to the dealership so I could drive back across the country (during a snow storm no less). The Type R's hatch swallowed the stock set of wheels/tires like it was nothing! That, combined with the lack of a moonroof made the Type R feel noticeably larger inside. 

While I think there's more bang for your buck with the Si, I wish they made the Si in a hatch and without a mandatory moonroof. A Type Ri if you will.