Nissan Tundra Diesel

I read that Nissan is bringing out a Tundra with a 5 Liter Cummins engine. Any word from the hive about this? Is this going to wind up a BroDozer? $40K, but I guess that's not too bad today.

Is Nissan buying the Tundra engines from Toyota ?

I got my F350 diesel for $45k...

Cummins V8 motor, I would not buy the first year.....

It has the potential to be a Titan in the half ton class.

bentwrench wrote: Cummins V8 motor, I would not buy the first year.....

I worked on development. Not the same as the 5.9 and 6.7 Isb's Not even close.

Would not buy.

The engines were jointly designed by cummins, the eps, and the doe(I think. It's been a while but it was a government grant that covered the research.) the goal was 30mpg out of a light truck and about the same out of a Durango sized suv. Chrysler also helped with development. Well about 2008 cummins was going to sell these to Chrysler and. Built a plant in Columbus Indiana to build v6 and v8 versions for Chrysler. The economy took a dump. Chrysler wasn't happy with the 6.7 launch. I remember the sales vp from cummins to Chrysler buying a truck for personal use as a symbol that he believed in the project. Chrysler was close to dumping the engine due to the nozzle sticking issues on the early holder vgt's. Anyways that guys turbo seized with about 1k miles on it and while riding with an exec for Chrysler. Chrysler went down the tubes and fiat entered into it. The v8 program was scrapped because fiat had a v6 that would work and be cheaper overall with similar performance. The v8 was developed because eveyone thought a v6 would not play well to the American public. Anyways the engine design was for a v8 with ultimate weight savings and it has a week rotating assembly by cummins standards. Anyone trying to roll coal with it will find rods hanging out of their pan rather quickly.

The engine was developed a long time ago and is antiquated compared to fords ecoboost. They have updated it but I'm skeptical that it'll remain together for long or take much abuse. It has been a long time since I was involved. Maybe it's better. I doubt it. The engine was built to pascar standards and duty cycles. Not mdt ones. Guys they built the engine and had capacity to produce since 2008-9. Cummins Shopped that motor to everyone and no one picked it up except Nissan, 7-8 years after production readiness. Think about it. If it was good or made sense financially ford or Chevy would have picked it up.

Also, for my final act, I'll say cummins main trick was being able to hit 2007 emissions with out the need of urea after treatment. The holset turbo and dpf were used and really no in cylinder tweaks were needed. Now though, the industry has adopted the urea after treatment and engines do not need fancy(read expensive and problematic) turbos to make good power. Additionally. The patents are running out on the holset turbo, cummins is about to get desperate.

Blame phone for bad formatting and sentence structure.

Interesting stuff, thanks for the inside scoop. I've got a 2010 6.7 that I'm planning to keep for a long, long time - any suggestions for improving longevity? I'm thinking the carbon injection system - I mean EGR - needs to go. I don't need a power boost and I don't want to roll coal.

So, basically, Nissan really wanted a diesel engine and Cummins probably gave them a deal on the ISV because they really needed to try to make some money back on that program?

Chadeux wrote: So, basically, Nissan really wanted a diesel engine and Cummins probably gave them a deal on the ISV because they really needed to try to make some money back on that program?

Yup.

Engine development and 1st running examples were done very early in the 2000's.

When i left they were trying to sell the engine as a replacement to the 6.5 in the hummvee. That worked out well.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Pull heavy loads and get the turbo hot. Driving it around to Home Depot or church like an old man is the fastest way to hose the turbo. Getting rid of the egr and Doser.

I helped develop a tsb where a tech would drill a hole in the turbine housing and hose a can of top engine cleaner onto the back of the sliding nozzle.

^^^Yep. When the turbo on my 2008 would stick I would hook onto the backhoe trailer and pull some hills with my foot to the floor. It would smarten right up. But after 200000 km or so it stopped working and I was told I needed a new turbo. Instead I did the deletes with a controller to get rid of the codes and 50000 km later the turbo is just fine. I run it on the stock setting and never see smoke. Oh, and 3mpg improvement.

is the turbo "stick" issue cured? looking at '16 cummins 1 tons right now. never touching a powerstroke and the duramax is nice but i'm so pissed off at gm right now i'm not giving them 45K.

In reply to patgizz:

I would assume so, but I've been outta the biz since 2009.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

FbC, you're obviously an insider. Interesting info.

I was at Cummins back at the turn of the century. I was pretty freshly out of college and worked in the Customer Assistance Center and then RAPIDSERVE. I look back at those experiences fondly (except the RAPIDSERVE experience, that one sucked badly).

I've heard rumors about the engines mentioned earlier in the thread but know little about them. As I said, interesting.....

I worked as a development/product engineer at holset for a time. It was fun but is a slow career to nowhere. They laid me off just before i quit due to finding another job. It all worked out.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: Pull heavy loads and get the turbo hot. Driving it around to Home Depot or church like an old man is the fastest way to hose the turbo. Getting rid of the egr and Doser. I helped develop a tsb where a tech would drill a hole in the turbine housing and hose a can of top engine cleaner onto the back of the sliding nozzle.

That's good to know, thanks. Last time I checked, it has had a trailer on the back for something like 80% of its mileage. It basically lives on the highway with a two-car enclosed trailer.

The EGR delete and controller should be here tomorrow :) Doser?

The Doser is the fuel injector that allows for dpf regeneration.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

Chadeux wrote: So, basically, Nissan really wanted a diesel engine and Cummins probably gave them a deal on the ISV because they really needed to try to make some money back on that program?

Yup. Engine development and 1st running examples were done very early in the 2000's. When i left they were trying to sell the engine as a replacement to the 6.5 in the hummvee. That worked out well.

Don't know when you were involved, but the entire engine design appears to have been changed significantly after the Chrysler deal fell through. It was originally designed (in the early 2000s) as a SOHC engine with a traditional VGT turbo. There was even a matching v6 variant. Then 08 happened, Fiat elected to use their own v6 diesel in the Ram 1500, and Cummins was left searching for a new partner.

The big "C" must have gone back to the drawing board because the engine in the Titan is a DOHC engine with a compound VGT turbo. The intake manifolds are different and some materials are different vs the development engines of a decade ago. Not sure what else has been reworked since then. Those are just the super obvious changes that one could visually confirm if one were to walk past the prototypes everyday on their way to test the new ones.

Glad to hear something in the design changed. I have been away very long. Dows the m2 holset compound still have that cockamamie valve that allows for splitting exhaust flow between the vgt and fixed turbo? We slapped the first one of those together before I took off.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: Here's the turbo in question. Not sure if it's the same as what you were working on, but seems similar for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlg6fZcLrF8

i have first hand experience with these engines and I wouldn't buy one for the first year or maybe 2... they left a bad taste in my mouth

Yeah, I actually work for Cummins and my landlord was part of the calibration team for that engine program before he got laid off. The design has changed significantly since the Chrysler involvement, though it does still use the M^2 turbo. Note that the ISV5.0 is somewhat different in that it uses a conventional WG turbo.

The engine actually does run well and has very good manners for a diesel, but as I'm not tied to that program, I'm not sure of reliability. I know most of the concern was the truck it's attached to rather than the engine, and that even if the Aisin trans isn't the greatest out there, they never actually failed one.

STM317 wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: Here's the turbo in question. Not sure if it's the same as what you were working on, but seems similar for sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlg6fZcLrF8

Thanks for that, been a while. It looks like it has a valve on both hot and cold sides. The hot side valve was a long process to develop and came from our first experiences with exhaust throttles. I have no clue about reliability, We were only in the starting stages when I left.

I miss those days. Miss the business but not the company.

captdownshift wrote: It has the potential to be a Titan in the half ton class.

What you did there, I seent it.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I miss those days. Miss the business but not the company.

As relatively new hire, what else don't you miss about the company? Besides sticky turbos, of course.