NJ aims to ban in-car subscriptions

Paying monthly for heated seats, remote start, and the like would soon be banned in NJ.  Let's hope other states are just as not amused by these shenanigans as we are here in NJ.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/new-jersey-legislators-aim-to-ban-most-in-car-subscriptions

I have to agree.....but will that also include companies like Tesla  that offer you a Horsepower upgrade over the air ?

In reply to californiamilleghia :

That's not a subscription, that's a purchase. You don't have to pay for it monthly, you buy it once and it's yours. Although it would be fun if you could rent it for the weekend :)

But I think Tesla currently offers "Full Self Driving" as a subscription. Or at least they did for a bit.

And what about the "Premium Connectivity" subscription, which is basically an upgraded cell data connection for streaming/live traffic etc? That makes sense as a subscription, like Sirius in my truck. It's going to be fun to write this. 

As subscriptions to car features grow, so will ways to get around them.

Having read the article, looks to me like the legislation is gonna miss the mark and be completely worthless. 
 

Apparently the lawmakers have no idea what they are actually trying to legislate. Color me shocked. 

In reply to SV reX :

I'm not a fan of the business model myself, though I understand it.

But is this REALLY something we need to legislate against?

In reply to Duke :

It is if they want to impress the unwashed masses and garnish votes. 
 

It's actually quite perfect. It's something everyone can get pissed off about, legislators can say "Look at me!  I did something about something that pissed you off!", and it can have absolute zero impact or damage on business, so no one will fight them off. 
 

Then later, they can blame business for  taking advantage of the "loopholes" in the legislation. 
 

Perfect ballot box legislation. 

In reply to SV reX :

Fair enough.

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to californiamilleghia :

That's not a subscription, that's a purchase. You don't have to pay for it monthly, you buy it once and it's yours. Although it would be fun if you could rent it for the weekend :)

The problem here is Tesla has removed it for 2nd owners, so it's not a purchase. 
I see no issues with heated seats subscriptions, if I move somewhere cold, I can turn on the heated seats vs buying a different car...

In reply to Steve_Jones :

That's why I was very specific in my wording. I've heard the reports about decontenting used Teslas and like so much other Tesla news, it's very hard to get accurate, current info from a reliable source. But no matter what happens after a sale, if you buy it once it's yours.

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

That's why I was very specific in my wording. I've heard the reports about decontenting used Teslas and like so much other Tesla news, it's very hard to get accurate, current info from a reliable source. But no matter what happens after a sale, if you buy it once it's yours.

Can you sell your car with the upgrade?

mtn said:

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

That's why I was very specific in my wording. I've heard the reports about decontenting used Teslas and like so much other Tesla news, it's very hard to get accurate, current info from a reliable source. But no matter what happens after a sale, if you buy it once it's yours.

Can you sell your car with the upgrade?

Of course you can sell the car :)

Now if you're asking if the upgrade is transferable, I have no idea. I've never asked as I've neither paid for the upgrade nor have plans to sell the car. If I wanted to know, I'd ask Tesla directly though. 

Keith Tanner said:

But no matter what happens after a sale, if you buy it once it's yours.

If you can't sell it then you don't own it.  You just have a non-transferrable license to use it.

I understand why manufacturers like the business model -- recurring revenue streams are highly desirable from that perspective.

I'm annoyed at this trend and that annoyance leads me to want it regulated- but I'm not a big fan of increased regulation. So- I dunno. 
the market will dictate how this plays out I think. 
On the point Keith mentioned- I did see a used model 3 for sale recently that had the full self driving subscription available for 299/month. That seems outrageous to me when that's one of the advantages of the Tesla over some of the other electric cars- why eat into your value prop? 

My response is simply not to pay for any subscription features. 

A lot of this junk is a 'want', not a 'need' anyway. 

Kids that have grown up with micro transactions in there video games are use to this kind of stuff. The car manufacturers have just rolled it out a little early.  

Duke said:

In reply to SV reX :

I'm not a fan of the business model myself, though I understand it.

But is this REALLY something we need to legislate against?

 

so cross the border into NY and you gotta pay? all cars have GPSs now basically 

so stupid on both sides, we are going to waste a bunch of energy like we usually do and get nowhere. 

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

But no matter what happens after a sale, if you buy it once it's yours.

If you can't sell it then you don't own it.  You just have a non-transferrable license to use it.

I understand why manufacturers like the business model -- recurring revenue streams are highly desirable from that perspective.

It seems that it is only removed from the vehicle if it is resold through Tesla (or traded in to Tesla and then sold at auction to a dealer). If you sell it privately, it remains. So how does that fit your definition?

If that's the case, it's like installing a roof rack or a spoiler or a giant sticker of an anime character. The dealer may choose to remove them from the vehicle before reselling.

grover said:

I'm annoyed at this trend and that annoyance leads me to want it regulated- but I'm not a big fan of increased regulation. So- I dunno. 
the market will dictate how this plays out I think. 
On the point Keith mentioned- I did see a used model 3 for sale recently that had the full self driving subscription available for 299/month. That seems outrageous to me when that's one of the advantages of the Tesla over some of the other electric cars- why eat into your value prop? 

FSD is an expensive option to buy new ($6k three years ago, $10k now). Not all cars have it because for some people - like me - it's not worth paying for and it's a separate thing from the car's other attributes. But you can subscribe to it on any Tesla if you don't want to put out all the money up front. So that Model 3 you saw is just a normal Model 3.

The FSD subscription is a better match to the "subscribe for features" complaint than the acceleration boost, which is neither a subscription not non-transferable.  It does involve effort in Tesla's part to maintain, though, so is it the equivalent of a BMW heated seat subscription?

This is not a "Tesla can do no wrong" rant, they're just the ones who tend to end up in the fuzzy edges of questions like this, so they invariably get used for examples. The BMW example is far more clear cut. OnStar is also pretty clear cut, as that's a service. It's all that stuff in between that's difficult. 

Keith Tanner said:

mtn said:

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

That's why I was very specific in my wording. I've heard the reports about decontenting used Teslas and like so much other Tesla news, it's very hard to get accurate, current info from a reliable source. But no matter what happens after a sale, if you buy it once it's yours.

Can you sell your car with the upgrade?

Of course you can sell the car :)

Now if you're asking if the upgrade is transferable, I have no idea. I've never asked as I've neither paid for the upgrade nor have plans to sell the car. If I wanted to know, I'd ask Tesla directly though. 

If you can't sell it, it isn't yours. 

The FSD seems much different to me than heated seats. Heated seats are a heating element and a switch. Both are physical and both are there. BMW or Tesla or anyone is never going to do anything to improve it. FSD is different to me. If I were to try to replace it, that replacement would be "chauffer", which is going to cost a heck of a lot more than $300 a month.

If you can buy it for $10k or rent it for $300 a month, both seem reasonable. It'd be great to rent it for a road trip, which is about the only time I'd use it.

I'm curious why the line for a subscription model is drawn at automobiles vs. everything else?

In reply to ProDarwin :

I think it's because most subscription services are just that, and everyone knows it. They don't come with a $50,000 initial purchase price tag, THEN an additional subscription service cost to turn E36 M3 on. 

ProDarwin said:

I'm curious why the line for a subscription model is drawn at automobiles vs. everything else?

I was wondering about that as well. I'm probably the only person left who buys music on CDs and doesn't have a streaming subscription :)

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Nope. I'm there too. 

I rarely buy music on CDs, but it happens.  I do not have any streaming music subscriptions.