Lately I've noticed an aversion to this bullitt here .....what seems to be the underlying displeasure? Just curious, cuz I believe this motor(or a variant) was in the nose of the '03 Aurora I once owned. Would return 21+ mpg on 89 oct and pretty much surprise quite a few at the stop light raceway.
Leak like sieves, pull head bolt threads, bolted to a Cadillac.
The new owner of my $150 Deville has made a point to bash limiter on cold starts ever since he took custody of it. I'll report back with how long it lives. It already had a suspect head gasket situation.
Streetwiseguy said:Leak like sieves, pull head bolt threads, bolted to a Cadillac.
Starter under the intake manifold too, correct?
In reply to Pete Gossett :
Correct. And I found out today that the timing chain is apparently at the flywheel end of the engine.
Pete Gossett said:Streetwiseguy said:Leak like sieves, pull head bolt threads, bolted to a Cadillac.
Starter under the intake manifold too, correct?
Not a real bad decision from an engineering standpoint. Low chance of oil getting into it and fouling anything. It will stay nice and dry, and should be a lack of heat soak from any exhaust. From what I remember of talking to techs and mechanics that worked on them the starters were very reliable
I followed a build thread years ago where someone was tearing down a N* to swap into another car. I dont remember all of the details but the overall sentiment is what stuck with me. It was a relatively clean engine with approximately 70K miles. As he tore it down and started measuring and checking things, he slowly began to complain about how overly complicated everything was, and how servicing would be a nightmare, and then he started to find thing were worn outside of spec or close to the wear limit on a relatively low mileage and seemingly well maintained engine. Through his posts it was quite apparent his opinion on this engine was changing as he got more and more into it.
They folded a while ago.
Daylan C said:In reply to Pete Gossett :
Correct. And I found out today that the timing chain is apparently at the flywheel end of the engine.
Timing chain is on the "front" of the engine. The water pump is on the flexplate side, belt driven off the end of the exhaust cam.
Wasn't it Audi that had that rediculous timing chain on the back of the engine?
I think much like the 4L60-e, the internet has stretched certain anecdotes to be universally accepted as truths. For every person with ZOMG HEADS GASKIT BLOWED UP MY CATILLAC there are thousands out there that have been driven to 200k miles reliably and retired from rust and not engine failures.
Streetwiseguy said:Leak like sieves, pull head bolt threads, bolted to a Cadillac.
They're a split block so the crank is supported by the top and bottom of the block, eliminating the main bearing caps. Gives you great support of the main bearings, but requires engine out service to reseal. I think it used to be 3-5k at the dealer. "You can buy ALOT of oil for 3k"
I think most of the headbolt issues were caused by deathcool (dexcool). Alot of people treated it like lifetime coolant and it turns acidic, eats the headgasket, gets into the bolthole and eats the aluminum block. They also had some porosity issues during different times.
In reply to Patrick :
Absolutely. There's something with the Northstar thing, much like the 4l60, that even people with no experience love to pile on.
My family has had 10+ Northstar cars over the last 20 years and only 1 developed "possible headgasket failure" on my dad around 250k. It was a 99, which is supposed to be one of the worst years for it. It happened in 2017 I think. No overheating but it liked to puke coolant.
We've taken all but 2 of those cars to 200k+ with no engine issues. I t boned a kid in one and my mom got hit backing into the driveway in the other.
I've actually seen more killed by 4L80 Issues than from engine issues.
Mr_Asa said:Pete Gossett said:Streetwiseguy said:Leak like sieves, pull head bolt threads, bolted to a Cadillac.
Starter under the intake manifold too, correct?
Not a real bad decision from an engineering standpoint. Low chance of oil getting into it and fouling anything. It will stay nice and dry, and should be a lack of heat soak from any exhaust. From what I remember of talking to techs and mechanics that worked on them the starters were very reliable
Our experience is the starters are very reliable. I've never actually had a starter fail. Twice we've had mice eat through the hot lead under the intake. They usually only make that mistake once.
Starter can be done without fully pulling the intake, you can unbolt it and tilt it up far enough to get to the starter, you just have to watch the fuel lines going to the rail. One of the easier jobs on a n*.
Dead_Sled said:Streetwiseguy said:Leak like sieves, pull head bolt threads, bolted to a Cadillac.
They're a split block so the crank is supported by the top and bottom of the block, eliminating the main bearing caps. Gives you great support of the main bearings, but requires engine out service to reseal. I think it used to be 3-5k at the dealer. "You can buy ALOT of oil for 3k"
I think most of the headbolt issues were caused by deathcool (dexcool). Alot of people treated it like lifetime coolant and it turns acidic, eats the headgasket, gets into the bolthole and eats the aluminum block. They also had some porosity issues during different times.
What he said. The block reseal had been done on my '00 DTS before I bought it, and it didn't leak a drop of anything at 184k when I sold it. It did burn a E36 M3load of oil, but I'd attribute that to never having seen redline before I bought it. Those engines like to rev, and they make great noises and power in doing so. Most of the head gasket issues were addressed with the first engine update in '00.
Yes,the 2001+ was much improved and a good motor. The supercharged ones always caught my interest.
Gearheadotaku said:Yes,the 2001+ was much improved and a good motor. The supercharged ones always caught my interest.
Different engine, 05+rwd cars were a blank paper design, still not sure why they called them Northstars.
Gearheadotaku said:Yes,the 2001+ was much improved and a good motor. The supercharged ones always caught my interest.
2000+ since they redesigned the engine to go with the new body, IIRC. Mine was an '00 DTS and had the updated engine.
2000+ gets you roller followers, coil on plug, redesigned combustion chamber dropping the premium gas recommendation, and corse thread headbolts. 03+ gets you even bigger and longer headbolts.
Dead_Sled said:2000+ gets you roller followers, coil on plug, redesigned combustion chamber dropping the premium gas recommendation, and corse thread headbolts. 03+ gets you even bigger and longer headbolts.
I believe the head bolt thread pitch changed this year also, IIRC. The redesign was called the PV2000, and I got to spend a fair amount of time in the very late 1990's working on the cnc machining side of that program. Good times, actually.
Their biggest problem is that LS1s exist.
Second biggest problem appears to be the Honda J35 - that seems to have shoved the Northstars out of the sandrail market, where they'd held off the LSx growth a bit longer due to their lighter weight.
Opti said:I dont remember all of the details but the overall sentiment is what stuck with me. It was a relatively clean engine with approximately 70K miles. As he tore it down and started measuring and checking things, he slowly began to complain about how overly complicated everything was, and how servicing would be a nightmare, it.
People used to say that about the Quad 4, and some shops wouldn't even work on them.
A modern Ecotec is significantly more complex and nobody questions it.
Run /thread
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