While I love the way my Miata handles and drives, I find the Neon's copious amounts of front-tire-shredding power to be more fun. I certainly prefer the street manners of the Miata when I'm just driving around but that has more to do with things like a radio, A/C, and an interior than with which wheels are delivering the power.
In reply to wae :
Fair enough, I see no reason to disagree. One question though. If the Miata suddenly had 200 hp, would your opinion change? (I realize this wasn’t the purpose of this thread)
It also depends on what the use for the car is. Just cruising the highway, in which case I'd say it doesn't matter a ton and I'm going for the faster car. If we're talking racing/autox/twisty mountain roads then I'm going to say it depends completely on the car. I couldn't just pick FWD vs. RWD, they both can be fun...and they both can be miserable.
I'm lucky enough to have a ton of LeMons races under my belt, and have driven all kinds of cars on a race track. Stock for stock if you asked me to choose a V6 SN95 'stang/Firechicken or Maxima, I'm going Maxima each and every time. Allow some modifications and the FWD vs RWD fun line can get really blurry. Our team has an EF Civic hatch. It's got Honda/Acura suspension bits underneath, if Sonic chimes in he can give all the details. For the longest time, it had a nearly stock Honda motor, with 200k+ miles on it. It was probably 120hp, if that. It was quick and hella fun to drive. It ran laps with higher power RWD cars, simply because it could corner and brake far better. We put a turbo on it, and it's now one of the fastest...if not THE fastest...car on the track, bar none. Driver skill comes into play of course, but the point is it still doesn't have the HP of some RWD cars and can run circles around them. And it's stupid fun.
On the RWD front, I spent a E36 M3 load of time behind the wheel of a '94 S-10 pick up that literally had a SeaSprite boat body attached to it. 4.3L V6, 5spd, with some suspension and brake mods. It was faster than that set up had any right to be, but still not "fast" per se. However, it was about as much fun as you can have with your pants on. Just a few weeks ago, I ran an '86 Cressida at Road Atlanta. Stock Toyota inline 6, 5spd manual conversion. There was a driver comfort factor...it was pouring rain the first day and I had very little experience at Road Atlanta. But after getting lots of laps in, and then finally having a dry track on Sunday, I was hauling. I was having an absolute blast, the car was so fun to drive, and I put down some good lap times.
So my short answer is they can both be a ton of fun, and if you're dismissing FWD you simply don't know what you're missing.
8v A2 versus Focus ST on that toll road in Germany
Thread is bad for me. I really miss that Golf.
I think doubling its power would have made it less fun. Its power was exactly enough. More power would have meant the open diff would have been insufficient, which would mean some sort of limited slip or torque biasing diff would be necessary, which would kill the steering feel and make the car less fun. It would also overpower the 185/60-14 tires, needing more width, which also would kill the steering feel and therefore the fun.
In reply to Knurled. :
Would you say that experience couldn’t be replicated with a MK4 Golf 1.8t?
In reply to ebonyandivory :
Yes. A4s (I'm stubborn, dangit) don't weigh 2200lb, don't have manual steering, and they do have cable shift trans. All bleh. The joy of the car is in how light it is, which means you don't really need power assist for things, or heavy wheels and tires and brakes. Granted it is still heavier than an A1, another chassis I love dearly, but I'll also admit that there are some things the A1 did wrong in the front suspension that makes them understeer. A lot. All the time. And have, somehow, heavier steering despite being a lighter car.
To say that the experience can't be duplicated in a larger, heavier car isn't to imply that one can't also enjoy the larger, heavier car. But man... there's a reason why clean A2s are worth stupid money.
I readily own up to probably being the only person on the planet who preferred the Tinkertoy shfit linkage that VW used on the 020 over a cable shift. But for those five or six minutes when everything is new and adjusted properly, it felt GOOD. One of the best things I ever did was make a solid shift rod ball out of a hockey puck that I first drilled through, then stuck a nut and bolt in the hole, chucked the bolt in a drill press, and freeform whittled it into the correct shape with a coarse file. That ball lasted forever, unlike the weird 2-piece ball that VW made.
I'm not really sure anymore. When I bought a 1988 325is some years ago, I'd been told, "You'll love it! It's like a RWD MCS!" Instead, I ended up hating pretty much everything about driving that car. It felt NOTHING like a RWD MCS to me. Hated the steering, the shifter, the general balance of the car compared to what I was used to. But now that I have a MCS of my own that I've driven quite a bit, I'm starting to lose interest in the car. I just like my old, slow cars - my Spitfire and GT6 or even my wheezy TDI wagon - more. And I'm starting to really miss my classic Mini. But I think I'll need to wait a few more years until I can import a late JDM car.
A few months ago, I had the opportunity to spend a long weekend with a '94 Miata. It was again - quite fun to drive and almost dead-nuts reliable (this particular car had an odd battery drain), but at the same time, it didn't really send me straight to CL looking for a Miata, so I'm not sure I want one.
So I guess I'm in the "it's more about the car than the drive wheels" camp.
If you're just taking votes put me down for RWD.
I would prefer the worst RWD to the best FWD you can think of.
Except I've almost got myself convinced my next car will be a GTI. I've always wanted one.
Nick Comstock said:I would prefer the worst RWD to the best FWD you can think of.
Statements like this shock me.
Have you driven a really bad RWD car? They are awful.
Hell, have you driven a pickup truck? They are awful.
In reply to ProDarwin :
Absolutely. But they behave the way a vehicle should behave. Even the best FWD vehicle is dynamically inferior to any pick up truck, van or anything else you can pick as the worst.
This is all just my opinion. I'm not writing the rules here.
And my personal experience says that my 1977 Cutlass was way more fun than any FWD car I've ever driven. By far.
My 97whp Mazda2 is the most fun car I've driven. Nobody has any expectations of it. Handles incredibly well.
I've also been autocrossing literally a different car at every event for the last two years, codriving friend's cars, helping novices, etc. Supercharged E36 M3, an XP FF Cobra, an STH Mk7 GTI, GT500, GT350, CAM Ecoboost Mustang, CSP Miatas, a built SM STI, a Focus RS, a wild 250ish whp Datsun 240Z, a 987.2 Boxster S, and a CAM C5Z06.
My favorite one to autocross was the C5Z. It had a cam and supporting mods to make 500whp, had 295/315 or so RE71Rs, and was so good, especially in slaloms. And putting down power. And sweepers. And noises.
I've driven a handful of those different cars on track as well. I prefer my little clown car. I find more fun in chasing down "faster" cars with 1/4 the power. Also keeps costs WAAAY down. Never had someone not get out giggling like an idiot.
Edit: so neither. Low power fwd cars or high power rwd cars.
Pretty simple decision matrix for me.
1. Smiles/Hour
2. Handling (almost always meaning Lightness)
3. Parts availability and ease of work
4. Whats cheap and in front of me
FWD: Cheaper, Lighter, less to break. I find myself going faster easier, amd can get away with a little more, especially on rougher roads. Usually better in bad traction.
RWD: More sideways fun, easier driveline upgrades, better for high hp. I seem to perfer, or at least find more natural, driving rwd. Better for towing.
I find myself going FWD more than expected, but usually due to platform. Double wishbone, light weight and countless parts make 88-00 civics and integras some of my favorite once setup, boring at anything but the easily attainable limit stock. Larger fwd cars bum me out with terrible weight balance and understeer too excessive to be tuned out. But to that end, many RWD cars now seem to plow every corner without massive swaybars. Likely thanks to fear of oversteer by mfgs since the 90s. Almost all cars seem to benefit from some front caster and rear stiffness these days.
For low power, almost always fwd. Ae86, answers, and kei cars might be the exceptions. Though I did ken block an old 6cyl maverick with tiny tires for months of cheap drifty fun, it was mildly terrifying to actually drive fast or in traffic.
ProDarwin said:Nick Comstock said:I would prefer the worst RWD to the best FWD you can think of.
Statements like this shock me.
Have you driven a really bad RWD car? They are awful.
Hell, have you driven a pickup truck? They are awful.
Statements like this shock me. I’ve driven a lot of fun pickup trucks. 
In reply to ebonyandivory :
That's a really tough question. Honestly, I don't think I would have a preference of they were equal in hp/lb ratios.
Nick Comstock said:In reply to ProDarwin :
Absolutely. But they behave the way a vehicle should behave. Even the best FWD vehicle is dynamically inferior to any pick up truck, van or anything else you can pick as the worst.
A Sprinter van would be on its roof/side at the first corner of any track. How is that 'dynamically superior' to something like a '92 Civic or a CRX?
Cotton said:Statements like this shock me. I’ve driven a lot of fun pickup trucks.
There are no doubt fun pickup trucks. But the vast majority of them are awful to drive from a performance standpoint.
I won't dispute that a lot of them might be good platforms for performance though. Big engine, rwd, double wishbones up front, room for a ton of tire, etc.
In reply to ProDarwin :
Plenty of sprinters going around the nurburgring. Sabine pushed one pretty hard trying to get under a certain number years ago. She didn't flip it. My contention is that I would rather a sprinter van in any situation over any FWD vehicle because it's RWD. Because it will respond to inputs the way I expect a vehicle to respond to inputs because it has the proper wheels being driven. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying to me, given all the different experiences I've had, driving all the different vehicles I've driven over my lifetime, there is no situation that I would rather be in any fwd vehicle over any rwd one.
In reply to Nick Comstock :
I guess it’s shocking nowadays to see a guy have a strong opinion and then double down and stick to it.
Thumbs up to ya!
In reply to Nick Comstock :
I've never had much of a problem getting a FWD car to do what I wanted it to do. Even oversteer at times. To me, that is more of an automatic to manual transmission thing. I have an easier time getting vehicles with manuals to react predictably than ones with automatics.
I’ll take my Cayman over a Civic Type R every day.
My two cars are a supercharged NB Miata and an R53 CooperS with a15% pulley and an exhaust. They're both a lot of fun, in slightly different ways. The Miata is set up to be ever so slightly loose at the limit, while the MINI will ultimately push. The MINI is absolutely the better car for travel, mostly due to its gearing. I've raced a Miata and an 8V GTI and you get the same sort of comparison. They're all fun. That Nurburgring video makes me want to resurrect the 55K mile 16V GTI that's been sitting in the garage for the last dozen years though. The common factor that all my cars have shared is relatively light weight, the MINI being the heaviest by about 300 pounds. A lightened MINI Cooper would be a hoot.
I'm always looking at quick FWD cars for sale and I always end up in something slow and RWD. My Miata is the only one I've ever considered buying and I only bought it because I know the previous owner. From my experience I'd rather drive a Maxima and I'd rather wrench on a Mustang. V6 Mustangs are awesome if you're poor because they're so cheap and reliable, but if you had money you'd have to REALLY like something about it to get one over a V8.
I saw an interesting ice race video. It was taken from a drone. Four super mods. Three were rear wheel drive and one front wheel drive. From th air you couldn't tell one from the other.
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