The GTR was definitely an option, the drivetrain would be sick to throw in there and everything is pretty sorted as far as transfer case, transmission, and front diff. Doesn't have to be a V8. Could even be a boosted 4 cyl. The freedom a tube frame gives allows us to free our minds. LOL
The WOT air locker was an idea, not a necessity. Would a LSD up front be better than an open diff?
Making room for a transfer case and drive shaft wouldn't be that big of a deal, who said it all had to be towards the driver side? With a divorced unit, I'd bet we could have it all run towards the pass side and offset the front diff that direction too.
Nashco
UberDork
5/28/13 12:36 p.m.
I don't know a lot about NASCAR chassis, but I think you'll be doing a heck of a lot of rework to make this happen. Obviously the transfer case, front diff, forward axle, etc. all need a home, but you'll also need to redo the entire front suspension design. Similar to my AWD Fiero project, the spring and damper are located right where your front axles want to be with the double A-arm configuration.
The powertrain is fairly straight forward if you want an LS and a T56. This has been hashed over on the forum before, here are some relevant links to review:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/cyclonetyphoon-clone-on-a-budget/22144/page1/
http://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/projects-gallery-189/4x4-t56-build-482293/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsJ7_UUA2D8
Only thing required to adapt the T56 to a transfer case is a fairly simple adapter plate (seen in the youtube link)...I haven't done it myself, just researched it.
For the front diff, there are a variety of 4x4 oil pan/sump setups that have clearance for the IFS front diff housing, reference GM full size and mid size trucks. Since the Colorado/Canyon/H3 was the smallest of the 4x4 V8 trucks, I expect that diff has some of the tightest packaging. With that said, I expect the engine would be farther back from the front diff than production setups, so that may not be an issue.
Don't get caught up on the open front diff, traction won't be a problem if you really build an AWD car weighing nearly 4000 pounds.
Bryce
AWD Astro transfer and front diff. Cheap, durable and IFS.
The nissan Frontier was availabe with a 6 speed manual, 4WD, and hooks up to the 370Z engine.
You could definetly do something with that! The front suspension is already independant.
4x4 Cossie parts? YB? MT-75 4x4 Box?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_MT75_transmission
Mazda787b wrote:
4x4 Cossie parts? YB? MT-75 4x4 Box?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_MT75_transmission
Did not think about that one since we didn't get them here in the states...
I was thinking about the front drive deal, it was mentioned about Colorado/Canyon/Hummer, turning radius will kill all the fun. I have a Coly with the Z71 suspension and it needs a lot of space to turn it. In NASCAR terms it has tons of push. :) Might be better to go with Subie, Mitsubishi, etc. Honestly, I think it would be a real blast to have if you could solve that front drive issue. Also, you might be limited on rim choice as you might only get truck rims. For Chevy hubs as they are 6 bolters. New idea as I sit here typing this, what if you run the v8 through trans and rear drive like normal, then run electric motors for the front drive? Something to brainstorm for all you guys who are WAY smarter than me...
From the GM end of things look to Borg Warner transfer cases. A BW4485 is a single speed full time AWD open diff (planetary) that gets along the lines of a 40/60 split front/rear. Used in fullsize GM trucks.
BW4482 transfer case is a two-speed, full time 4WD, transfer case with 40/60 split front/rear full time. Used in fullsize GM trucks.
The New Venture stuff that the later models use rely on Vehicle Dynamic Control/Traction Control/Stability Control, or whatever GM calls it to get power to the wheels that need it, using the vehicles brakes to meter the power output front to rear/side to side as needed, but requires magic electrons, sensors, and computer to work.
The "Dumb" BW T-cases were what I decided on when I was researching an AWD LSX package. None are behind manual transmissions from the factory, but an adapter shouldn't be too terribly hard to come up with. I seem to remember coming acrsoss some anecdotal web evidence of AWD manual STS and/or SRX Caddys, but if I remember they were like finding hens teeth and weren't the "dumb" transfer cases.
If weight is a non issue, there's a few HEAVY options. The NP205 and NP203 were both available as divorced from the factory, but are getting rare thanks to the 4x4 community snatching them up. Suzuki Samurai uses a divorced transfer case but it's "high range" isn't a true 1:1, and it wouldn't live behind an LSX for HPDE. An old Datsun 720 will get you a small divorced transfer case with a true 1:1 high range, but I think it fails elsewhere just the same as the Sammy.
I may think of some others after dusting some cobwebs off, I did a lot of research on this when I thought I might actually do something about it.
I like the 40/60 split. I have found a company who makes a T56 with a transfer case adaptor on the back that is not drilled, so the transfer case can be clocked or installed however you want it on the adaptor. Trans isn't cheap, but it's built to take ALL sorts of punishment.
What's the difference between a single speed and 2 speed transfer case? Which would work better in this application?
There's enough of the Cossie stuff floating around if you keep an eye on the Merkur forums.
JVAB Imports in the PNW would be a good resource for tracking down such parts as well.
Those transmissions can be made to handle some decent power, right? I mean I've seen some INSANE Cossie's that are still AWD.
WOW!!
http://www.rscosworthbreakers.co.uk/
What about Hybrid? Use wireing smoke to drive the front wheels?
tuna55
PowerDork
5/30/13 12:42 p.m.
nocones wrote:
What about Hybrid? Use wireing smoke to drive the front wheels?
Bryce may be able to assist with this idea...
Nashco
UberDork
5/30/13 1:06 p.m.
tuna55 wrote:
nocones wrote:
What about Hybrid? Use wireing smoke to drive the front wheels?
Bryce may be able to assist with this idea...
Only an idiot would think a hybrid race car makes sense...
Bryce
slefain
UltraDork
5/30/13 1:40 p.m.
My friend is using a Trailblazer SS transfer case in this:
Insanely light and will take a huge amount of horsepower apparently.
ransom
UltraDork
5/30/13 3:30 p.m.
slefain wrote:
My friend is using a Trailblazer SS transfer case in this:
Insanely light and will take a huge amount of horsepower apparently.
Build thread link? Pleeeeease?
Is that offset drive for the front diff pirated off a transfer case, with the whole front drive system having two chains; one to offset from the trans output (at the transfer case) to the front drive shaft and this one to un-offset from the front drive shaft back to the front diff?
Wally
MegaDork
5/30/13 4:31 p.m.
You will probably come out ahead building a new chassis rather than convert a stock car. Besides the issues Nashco pointed out about the front drive parts your transfer case will have to fit behind that center crossmember between those tabs where the truck arms attach and then the front drive shaft would have to go through that crossmember. By the time you do all that cutting you could have built something better suited for what you want. 
Yeah, people run insane power through those YBs.
In theory, you could use a regular 2.3T and save money on the engine. Same bellhousing pattern, maybe a call to TIlton for the appropriate clutch parts. Not as strong or cool as the YB, but it's a safe bet.
Wally wrote:
You will probably come out ahead building a new chassis rather than convert a stock car. Besides the issues Nashco pointed out about the front drive parts your transfer case will have to fit behind that center crossmember between those tabs where the truck arms attach and then the front drive shaft would have to go through that crossmember. By the time you do all that cutting you could have built something better suited for what you want.
Shut up with your logic! LOL
In all actuality, you're right. But it's fun to do a fantasy build.
Buy a totalled Grand Cherokee awd V8 and get out your Sawzall and welder.
