So every time I see somebody ask about a truck that isn't going to be a daily, everybody seems to go crazy saying "Don't get a diesel, they don't like to sit!". Now I have one of these blasphemous creations of clattering motivation that's been sitting since early March due to a differential failure. It's not the first time it's spent several months like this either, so naturally, I'm curious. What actually are the problems and what causes them?
They don't like to roll over or play dead either but they can be taught.
FWIW, mine sits quite a bit and it always fires right up and does it's thing so I'm curious as well. I know it does not like to do short trips around town with no weight on it... but sitting for weeks on end does not seem to be an issue.
They shouldn't suffer any more from sitting than a gas engine. It's light load, short trips and extended idling that they don't like, as that can carbon things up pretty badly.
So I should throw a thousand pounds in the back of my too fiddy to compensate for the 7 mile drive to work?
ultraclyde wrote: So I should throw a thousand pounds in the back of my too fiddy to compensate for the 7 mile drive to work?
As long as it gets longer drives on a fairly regular basis and you don't drive it like a grandma, it should be fine.
Mine was getting driven about 70-80 miles a day before it broke again, and I apparently have an unreasonably heavy foot.
There are nasty, filter clogging, tank eating things that can grow in diesel fuel/kerosene/jet-A that don't grow in gasoline.
Not that gasoline is all that great as it ages either.
My old IDI i owned for a very short period always started and idle'd fine after sitting but felt down on power until it had a few miles at full temp or a few 1/2-3/4 throttle pulls. Maybe alot of the diesel fear is from older trucks like that?
Don't tell my F250 - it sits for a week plus at a throw, always fires right up, and 99.999% of its driving is 20 miles empty to work on the freeway.
but it'll grow algae. You NEED to buy 2 cans of my special snake oil for $99.99 at each fuel stop.
define "sit" the company I worked for had several trucks that would sit weeks unless their was a heavy load that had to go somewhere. We even had a mack semi that would sit for months until it was needed to haul a trailer load worth of lights somewhere.. except for the inevitable flat batteries.. they always fired right up... one of the trucks was air start.. so I know it occasionally needed the tank refilled before starting after sitting for a long time
I don't think it's a mechanical issue as much as it is a money issue. What would you rather have sitting in the yard depreciating. A $15K+ diesel or a $3K+ gas. My BB gas F350 was at the bottom of the depreciation curve when I bought it. Other than taxes and insurance, it costs me nothing for it to sit in the yard. In the last 4 years, I've averaged around 3000 miles a year so a diesel has no advantages for me.
I don't know that either one will sit, unused, better than the other. Diesel has the edge in long term fuel storage, but that doesn't become an advantage unless it's sitting for years at a time. Algae is also pretty much a non issue unless you are storing it long term. A dose of algaecide will solve that problem.
rslifkin wrote: They shouldn't suffer any more from sitting than a gas engine. It's light load, short trips and extended idling that they don't like, as that can carbon things up pretty badly.
I thought it was the hot starts that were bad, hence always seeing people idling their diesels? Or truckers that leave them idling for AC and such.
z31maniac wrote:rslifkin wrote: They shouldn't suffer any more from sitting than a gas engine. It's light load, short trips and extended idling that they don't like, as that can carbon things up pretty badly.I thought it was the hot starts that were bad, hence always seeing people idling their diesels? Or truckers that leave them idling for AC and such.
Hot starts are easy on any engine as it builds oil pressure quickly and the cylinders are warm so it's not blowing fuel past the rings. People are more inclined to let a diesel idle for A/C or something as the fuel consumption at idle is significantly lower than a gas engine of similar size.
Well since I was the latest one to respond to that, based on the OP saying that they wanted to get a truck for use 6-10 times a year, here is what I will share:
I guess what I could say is that would be more clear is that you are not going to take advantage of a diesel properly, if you are going to use it that infrequently. Take into account that you are going to pay significantly more for a diesel in the 1st place (yes it will also retain it's value, but that only matters if you sell it), then the value equation gets very iffy.
Berk. I'm probably going to need to drain the tank of my TDi... which has been sitting for about two and a half years.
Other than that, I don't really know. My TDI has sat in the past for a month or more while I did a timing belt change. When done, it would start up like it was nothing.
My Cummins (with fewer miles than the TDi) didn't like sitting for more than a week or so. Especially during cold weather. Fortunately, a pair of big batteries allowed for plenty of cranking time.
Lastly, my old '90 conversion van sat for well over a year and the engine started up on the gas in the tank like it had run minutes before.
My Spitfire doesn't seem to care much about sitting over the winter, although I do put stabilizer in the tank and drive it around a bit before the final parking.
I assume the pump and/or injectors gunk up, I don't think things break or take damage (unless it sits for years) but they can be cantankerous to get fired up after a month or two, they get better after a few WOT pulls though. You'll also run into hard starting if you try running a diesel on summer fuel in the winter (winter diesel is thinner).
Truckers leave them idling for AC/heat and I'd guess momentum from 30+ years ago when they hated starting in sub freezing conditions enough that the diesel burned was much cheaper than time wasted cold starting one the following morning.
Construction/farm equipment sits for months at a time.
I worked for a JD dealer for over five years, the only fuel problems I ran into was caused by cold weather. Thank goodness for kerosene.
Air bubbles in the fuel system, air can get in places where fuel doesn't leak.
Uncle always has a spray can of WD-40 behind the seat on his junk. The Propane and petroleum distillates in the WD-40 induce a diesel to start without warming it up on the battery.
And is not as dangerous or hard on parts as either.
bentwrench wrote: Air bubbles in the fuel system, air can get in places where fuel doesn't leak. Uncle always has a spray can of WD-40 behind the seat on his junk. The Propane and petroleum distillates in the WD-40 induce a diesel to start without warming it up on the battery. And is not as dangerous or hard on parts as either.
But don't use ether!
I don't have any problems with them sitting and some had and still do occasionally sit for a year or more. I usually, but not always, use a fuel additive and standyne is my go to these days. I also tend to keep my fuel filters nice and fresh. The current diesel fleet consists of:
5 ton m820 with the non turbo Cummins 855
84 cucv with the Detroit 6.2
85 Mercedes 300d om617
85 Mercedes 300sd om617
88 Peterbilt 362 with the turbo Cummins 855
95 Ford f450 with the super duty 7.3
2002 Chevrolet k3500 with duramax
The first I'd heard so much about the horrors of a diesel sitting was on this forum and I really don't get it. In my experience diesels are better about sitting than a gas engine.
iceracer wrote: Construction/farm equipment sits for months at a time. I worked for a JD dealer for over five years, the only fuel problems I ran into was caused by cold weather. Thank goodness for kerosene.
^^ This ^^
We have a 40 year old diesel tractor at my grandmas house and it gets used maybe 4 or 5 times a year. Antigel in the winter and injector cleaner in the summer. Starts right up every time you need it.
I don't know who told you diesels can't sit, but I feel like they don't know what they are talking about.
I bought a diesel that had sat 2 years. Once I fixed wiring issues it fired right up.
Sitting shouldn't be a problem for a diesel that's in reasonable good condition.
There are fuel additives that can be used to help eliminate water and reduce the risk of growing algae, even though it's not something frequently encountered with road vehicles. Additives can also be used to prevent fuel issues from cold weather.
The drawback to sitting for extended periods of time is that it can make small problems seem like bigger problems, for example:
A small leak in the fuel system make cause it to bleed down slowly and lose some prime. When sitting overnight it may not even be noticed, but over several weeks it can make the engine hard to start.
Or
Weak batteries may be fine for a couple days, but after weeks they may not be able to crank fast enough to fire the engine without a jump.
Regarding the idling, the issue isn't really hot starts as much as hot shut downs. You want to idle long enough to allow the egt's, oil temp, and turbo temp to drop. Unlike your average diesel pickup, most of the commercial trucks you see are hauling 50-80k lbs so after a long pull it can take several minutes or more for temps to drop to acceptable levels that you won't cook the oil sitting in the turbo.
If your stopping to take a leak and get a fresh coffee, it's probably faster for the driver and easier on the engine to let it run and equalize temps rather than waiting for it to reach a safe temp to shut down.
When stopping for the night with a commercial truck, unless you have an APU, the idling engine provide the HVAC to keep you comfortable and the electricity to power your electronics and fridge.
The only real hazard I can see from extended sitting it that there is more time for oil to drain back from bearings, etc. but typically letting it idle long enough to build oil pressure and idle smooth will get oil to all the critical surfaces while keeping loads at safe levels.
I'm curious though about the statement made earlier about maintenance that need to be done based on time and not use, and what maintenance would fall into that category?
So basically it's not as much of a potentially damaging the equipment issue as a getting you're money's worth issue. Makes a lot more sense when I look at it that way.
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