OK... teach me some AWD :(

Many of you know I just moved to PA from TX. My wife and I both grew up here and we're great snow-drivers, just out of practice. My winter car was always my 96 Impala SS with 285mm summer-only performance rubber and I only ever got stuck twice.

But... my wife is wondering if she needs a new car with AWD . Our new house's driveway is long, uphill, and not easy to climb, especially because where it meets the road its boxed in by two guardrails... no running starts. She has some great Xice Michelin tires on it that do great on the road, just not quite enough for the driveway.

So, just to placate her while she re-learns how to drive in the snow, here are the requirements. Maybe you'll turn up an excellent choice that is actually something that is a wise choice and I can shut her up. We're actually considering buying an AWD vehicle for 400 ft of driveway. (I'm really kidding about my wife... kinda)

• used
• manual trans
• AWD (would consider 4x4)
• the more MPG the better. (she currently has a Scion xB getting 35+ mpg)
• focus on reliability (see xB comment above)
• small-ish size. I suggested a blazer and she said "too big."
• price range under $7500

Her first thoughts were RAV4 and CRV, but I've been so disappointed every time I drove one. They feel like a lifted civic or corolla... which is interesting, because they ARE.

Its Texas. FWD should be fine. If its glazed with ice, its no good anyway. Are you sure you didn't move to the top of Pikes Peak? But if its what SHE wants.....

Ford Escape, but that may be over 7.5 sacks.

Subaru. Done. You won't get scion gas mileage with awd, so you'll have to live with that. Other options suzuki sx4, Older audi(I don't suggest it, as parts are pricey)., Volvo wagon, nissan rogue, but may be tough to find one at your budget.

sperlo, he moved to PA.

In reply to sachilles:

Apparently im cixelsid.

suzuki sx4 awd?

Can you run studded snows in PA? That would solve the traction problem going both uphill and downhill, and be loads cheaper than a car. If not, get the model of Blizzaks that's dedicated to ice traction and just know that you'll only get 2 years max out of them. I've had both those and the Michelin X-Ice and trust me when I say that the Blizzaks are really in a class of their own for studless tires on ice.

I can run studded snows but the trade-offs are scary. I used to put them on her Tercel before Blizzaks were an option but they were only really a benefit in ice. Snow, wet, and dry they were downright annoying.

I was afraid of that with the Xice Michelins, but they had a sale on them at Tire Rack that made them cheaper than Blizzaks so I thought I'd give them a shot.

I like the Subys but she doesn't. I do have her convinced that a previous-generation Forester is an OK choice.

Blizzacks are ice racing r compounds.

AWD and MPG don't belong in same sentence.

you need a good snow tire not an ice tire something like the old zig zag tread firestones. skinny skinny skinny. Or thos snap over plastic spiders with the studs in them just for the driveway. A modern version of chains.

Get her to drive a Forester. My wife hated them until she went for a test drive, she's now on her second Foz. I used to run 205/75/15 Bridgestone ATs on mine, and it was flat out unstoppable anywhere I put it. Lots of options in even the base models, great road manners, I could go on.

I like the SX4 idea as well. Mileage should be better than anything out of Subaru with the exception of older 1.8 and 2.2 Legacy/Impreza.

Snow tires for whatever you get. iPikes and Winterforces are my current faves for when the going gets rough.

you could always try and find an All-Trac Corolla... should cost under $2 grand... decent mileage @ 28 highway. simple engine and trans... reliable... just look for as little rust as possible

If you can find one, maybe a 323 GTX?

44Dwarf wrote: AWD and MPG don't belong in same sentence. you need a good snow tire not an ice tire something like the old zig zag tread firestones. skinny skinny skinny. Or thos snap over plastic spiders with the studs in them just for the driveway. A modern version of chains.

Tell that to the new impreza 2.0i - 27/36 I believe? Not bad. 'Bout 10% behind the equivalent Focus. Not that it's a "fun" car though.

you really don't need AWD in pgh. like i don't really need a 4x4 in cleveland. but having gone 14 years without and so far this last few months with, it sure is nice for when you're out before the plows.

Any AWD Subaru

Teh E36 M3 wrote: Tell that to the new impreza 2.0i - 27/36 I believe? Not bad. 'Bout 10% behind the equivalent Focus. Not that it's a "fun" car though.

True but new Impreza is down to a 2.0l and its a sack less wonder. Fine for around town but doubt if you need to Bonzi up a hill if it could do it.

How about just getting some salt for your driveway? A simple garden spreader and a few bags and your in order.

(also in PGH)

It really hasnt been bad here at all this year. We had about a week there and thats been it this year.

If your gung-ho for a new car, I have to go with the subaru camp. My family has had 3 of them. A 97 legacy wagon, a 04 impreza 2.5, and a 07? legacy outback. When we were shopping we found that the Legacy's were a better drive then the foresters with more cargo capacity. That said, both Legacy's were/are gutless. Right now the Impreza is seeing mid 20's mpg, but really needs new plugs, trans flush, etc. Have seen over 30mpg out of it and have had 115k trouble free. (one rear pivot replacement, yeah 115k on the plugs.. no wonder the MPG is down a hair)

P.S. Subarus hold their value VERY well, so you need to look a few years back.

BTW, got any cool car projects you could use a hand on? Still in town for a month and I'm unemployed and itching to wrench. Will work for beer/food (moving away from Pitt at the end of Feb)

Good mileage and AWD just don't really mix. How about a limited slip for the xb? Combined with the trac, it should work quite well.

toyota matrix xr awd

corytate wrote: toyota matrix xr awd

or it's Pontiac twin. Only available used, but you should be able to find a good one.

Apexcarver wrote: How about just getting some salt for your driveway? A simple garden spreader and a few bags and your in order.

Three problems with that: 1) salt only works down to about 12 degrees so its not a problem solver. 2) the amount of salt it takes to cover a 400' driveway is prohibitive every time it snows. 3) it would destroy the ability for anything to grow in the surrounding yard where it leeched out. I have a snow blower. The snow and ice can't always be helped. The problem is the steep hills including our driveway.

patgizz wrote: you really don't need AWD in pgh. like i don't really need a 4x4 in cleveland. but having gone 14 years without and so far this last few months with, it sure is nice for when you're out before the plows.

Completely agree. I spent two winters in Ontario and didn't "need" it there either. IMHO, 4x4 is an off-road-only thing, and AWD was force-fed to us as a safety feature.

Interestingly enough, I "needed" 4x4 in Texas more than I did in PA. It doesn't snow or freeze much, but when it does everything is so helpless down there. They don't know how to drive it, don't have any salt or plows.

I'll throw out the unpopular choice...

For $7500 you can buy a really nice B5 Audi A4 1.8t avant quattro. They'll get over 30mpg on the freeway, are easy to work on and with a simple chip make a pretty stout amount of power.

For your price range you can get a cherry one that hasn't been abused and is up on all the maintenance.

I have an Audi and love it, but for $7,500 why not get a 2003-ish WRX? They are great cars, tough, fun to drive and you can do snow autox or lapping with it as well.