Javelin wrote: In reply to bravenrace: You really need to learn to separate the serious (a NASCAR at LeMans) from the hyperbole (running an Audi over), or you're going to die of a massive brain hemorrhage, man.When GRM says the FRS isn't as good as 2 Miatas welded together do you take that as literally?
That made no sense whatsoever.
bravenrace wrote:Javelin wrote: In reply to bravenrace: You really need to learn to separate the serious (a NASCAR at LeMans) from the hyperbole (running an Audi over), or you're going to die of a massive brain hemorrhage, man.That made no sense whatsoever.
Aaaaand point made. Backing away slowly from the thread...
yamaha wrote: Also, to clarify, "A slick aero package" would not help there.......the name of the game at le mans is downforce, while the delta was light and sleek, it made considerable downforce.
I know the downforce on a cup car is no where near the modern stuff... but 3500#s is quite a bit of "downforce" while its standing still.....
I seriously doubt a cup car would find the woods like the Mercedes did a few years back
Damn it. Stop with the prick waving contest over NASCAR vs whatever. This thread has nothing to do with that.
Have we forgotten about Briggs Cunningham's Cadillacs, back in 1950?
Javelin wrote:bravenrace wrote:Aaaaand point made. Backing away slowly from the thread...Javelin wrote: In reply to bravenrace: You really need to learn to separate the serious (a NASCAR at LeMans) from the hyperbole (running an Audi over), or you're going to die of a massive brain hemorrhage, man.That made no sense whatsoever.
Really? Please tell me how to do that? Read the post. Is there anything, ANYTHING in that statement to indicate that the part about a NASCAR at LeMans was serious and the part about it running over an Audi wasn't? Of couse, he didn't mean it would literally run over the Audi, but I 'm pretty sure he did mean that it would beat the Audi, which is ludicrous, if for no other reason than the truck would blow up or lose it's brakes before completing the race.
slantvaliant wrote: Have we forgotten about Briggs Cunningham's Cadillacs, back in 1950? http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/photos-racing/lemans14.jpg
That link doesn't work for me...
Dunno about the CoT, but the older Winston Cup cars would definitely be able to make the speeds necessary on the straights. Now, brakes, aeros, etc... those might need some work.
The biggest problem, though: NA$CAR is basically a 'silhouette' series, with tube chassis wrapped in something that sort of approximates a road going car. I don't know what class they would fit in at LeMans. It would be cool to maybe create a class for them like they did in 1976, see how they would fare.
I'd think the biggest issue a Cup car would have at LeMans would not be the speed or even the handling, but probably be the brakes they are forced to stuff under those little 15" wheels. Every other pit-stop might require a pad change. While the cars can easily do 200 mph laps on the super-speedways, those tracks don't have slow speed corners. Plus, the aero package for road courses is quite a bit different than for the high speed ovals.
Regardless, the original article is cool. While they had backing, the whole experience sounds like it was done GRM-style.
... and a huge honkin' brake package
I say....King Richard should take his Superbird to Lemans.
I saw that stock car at Le Mans Classic this year. It stood out in the field! I didn't know it was an actual NASCAR stock car, but it sure sounded like one. Ridiculous amount of noise.
Actually the biggest challenge would be that Sprint Cup cars are not serviceable relative to the rest of the Le Mans field. Some serious changes would be required to make the cars "hot swap-able". It's enough to plug NASCAR drivers into LeMans cars and rely entirely on driver talent.
In reply to Steve Chryssos:
True... I read an article about the R8 recently and it mentioned the whole transmission sub-frame assembly could be swapped in something like 15 minutes.
On the plus side... an errant pass in a Prototype would not fair well against a Cup car... 
I don't think anyone was serious in claiming a NASCAR chassis of any kind could win Le Mans. I read that as a generic "truck big, car little, truck crush car" kind of joke. Let's all take a breath.
Now, with that said, it would be fun to see a pre-CoT NASCAR chassis at Le Mans just to see what would happen. I think the biggest problem is that stock cars aren't designed to run more than 600 miles, so durability with brakes, engines, etc could be a problem.
But I also think a lot of people here are fascinated with the idea because who DOESN'T want to put an F1 car, Indy car, NASCAR, DP car, ALMS prototype, GT-class sports car, etc. on the same track with good drivers and just see what kind of times they post relative to one another? No, a stock car obviously won't win, but just how badly will it lose, or will it surprise us a bit?
I seem to recall a comment by the Toyota Le Mans team in Racecar Engineering that their car was very similar under the skin to the old Toyota F1 car. I'd love to see an F1 car built to run a 24 hour race. Endurance racing is fascinating because the cars have to be fast, reliable AND easily fixed. That's a tall order.
Brakes would be the problem. If you could skew the rules to quick change brakes it would be neat.
I think in '76 they were using OEM sheet metal for the Unibody but it wasn't long after that they went to purpose built tube frames from guys like Banjo Matthews.
Imagine, if you will, a LeMans car based on one of the Continental Tire cars with relaxed engine rules. I'd buy that for a dollar!
Cup cars are highly engineered tube frame race cars. the only reason they are heavy is that there are weight rules that they meet by adding LEAD.3400 pound minimum I think. And don't forget about restrictor plates and all the other foofora that NASCAR uses to level the playing field. Take all that stuff away and you have very capable cars.
In reply to 93EXCivic:
I'm trying to get my Monte that low and it may not be possible without cutting out the floor and gong with a tube frame. Here's a picture of what was done to those Chargers
They were pretty much built up from scratch, although the Pettys did still run torsion bars and leaf springs to the end just like the production Chargers
Old Fart Recollection Alert:
Didn't Car & Driver or Road & Track do an article on Nascar's foray into Le Mans? I swear I recall reading thaat article back when it happened and it read like a bunch of Winston Cup drivers were there to take part.
Typical story of 1970s good ol' boys carrousing and drinking and some racing discussion thrown in.
From the article posted on page one:
"We were changing drivers each gas stop - about every three hours -"
That seems like a lot of fuel capacity to go three hours between stops.
I like the idea of repeating the experiment or stunt or whatever it was. Slap some head lights and wipers on a cup car and let them go at it.
93EXCivic wrote:btp76 wrote: If memory serves, they stopped being stock cars by around 1970. After that they were custom chassis. I think the "truck arms" date that far back.Really? I thought they were still using stock chassis.
i think some teams had discovered the simplicity and durability of the truck arm rear suspension as far back as the 60's, but find some images of Smokey Yunick's infamous 66 Chevelle and you will see a 3 link with a watts linkage.. there is also an image out there somewhere on teh internets of Richard Petty's Grand Prix in the air upside down and backwards in the mid 80's that shows some sort of a 4 link arrangement...
they all eventually wound up with truck arms due to a combination of costs and rule changes sometime in the 80's..
In reply to Wally:
Wow. I didn't realize that.
bravenrace wrote:Klayfish wrote: Hell, just bring one of the Camping World trucks. Let it try to run down the Audi...or run it over as it's trying to get out of the way.You're kidding, right?
It didn't come out right. What I was trying to say was that the truck would be the one trying to get out of the way of the oncoming LMP (or GT...or maybe the pace car) and probably be so clumsy in doing so that it would run into/over the LMP.
Actually, some of my favorite NASCAR races of the year are the road courses. It's fun watching the big heavy cars on skinny tires try to turn left and right, but even the best NASCAR roadracer would get wiped out in a stock car trying to race an LMP car.
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