In reply to Stampie :
The Cadillac is the engine the V12 was designed to compete with. You can tell the Jag was designed to go out that big. The first version was designed to go to 5 liters and it made 504 horsepower. But it wouldn't get much bigger without a redesign of everything. Lyons had his engineers start over with a clean sheet about when Cadillac came out with the 472.
In reply to frenchyd :
Shame that Jaguar came up short of competing with Cadillac. Just saying.
03Panther said:frenchyd said:Stampie said:I thought a lot today during my drive. The car is missing a steering column. There's no shifter. It's not a one man thing to load it up. Plus it'd have to be unloaded then loaded again several times. That combined with putting others out makes it to where I don't think it's worth me saving it. Someone in the Midwest should save it instead.
Sorry, I'm committed to the Jaguar XJS. I'm sure you wouldn't want to see a Jaguar powered modified. ;-)
I would LOVE to see a V12 jag, in something like that! Would help ya build that, if I lived up that way
I do have a couple extra good V12's. Oops! 3 extra.
I've always loved the thought of em. Never touched a wrench to one though. A girl I knew in the late '90s had a nice 88 xjs I drove a few times. Ran great. But, like most '88 cars, lift the hood, and couldn't see the engine!
frenchyd said:In reply to 03Panther :
The thing I have learned is when my body tells me to take a break I no longer try to continue on.
Amen to that, brother!
Stampie said:In reply to preach (dudeist priest) :
Although Frenchy claims that a BBC is my favorite big block, my favorite is actually a Cadillac 472/500. I have one waiting on a project. With a BOP 400 trans sitting here also. That's way more likely for something like this. If I were to buy it that is.
As soon as Stampie got pulled into this I was expecting his Cadillac engine to get mentioned. I can't think of a better place for it.
Stampie said:In reply to preach (dudeist priest) :
Although Frenchy claims that a BBC is my favorite big block, my favorite is actually a Cadillac 472/500. I have one waiting on a project. With a BOP 400 trans sitting here also. That's way more likely for something like this. If I were to buy it that is.
I never wanted to build a high hp caddy, but think they are, by far, the best really big DD gas engine!
BTW... IF you buy it? F loves to race, and refuses to drive to FL to race; now he is offering to drive it to FL just for you... ya gotta step up to that!!! (Just smack talk, incase the printed word don't send well...)
We gotta get this to at least the Mid-Atlantic region. Come on GRM!
In for $20
03Panther said:I've always loved the thought of em. Never touched a wrench to one though. A girl I knew in the late '90s had a nice 88 xjs I drove a few times. Ran great. But, like most '88 cars, lift the hood, and couldn't see the engine!
Boy do I ever understand that.!! Did you know Jaguar actual air conditions the fuel line so it won't overheat? Honestly!! In addition On the sedans with the battery under the hood it has its own fan so the lead doesn't t melt!!! The XJS has the battery in the trunk for that reason.
However, you can remove all of that by updating to a modern A/C , alternator and eliminating the Air compressor.
Suddenly the all aluminum V12 is right there in simple glory. Spark plugs are right on top so really easy to change and check. If you want even more simple you can bolt on the earlier carbs. That are lawn mower simple and flow as much air as a Holley dominator. Yes you will lose 17 horsepower over the complicated EFI. Unless you switch from the Strombergs to the HD8 SU's which are even more simple and can make over 70 extra horsepower.
I'm kind of glad I'm too far away for this
Stampie said:In reply to frenchyd :
Shame that Jaguar came up short of competing with Cadillac. Just saying.
Can you imagine what a 500 cubic inch V12 would do? Especially if it had an OBD2 so people wouldn't have to trouble shoot the system.
Out of curiosity what kind of net power did the 500 make? Never mind I looked it up on Wikipedia.
Only 234 Net hp to the 326 Jag V12 of 262 Net hp And later 314 hp.
In reply to frenchyd :
Ok so you want to start this again.
First let me point out that after 1970 Cadillac started lowering compression to meet emission standards. So using net numbers for a later engine is, as normal for you in these conversations, twisting the truth. I happen to own a 70 472 because of the higher compression.
Second, the Cadillac 500 was designed for torque not horsepower. Let's look at torque figures. In 1972 a Cadillac 500 made net torque of 385 ft lbs. In 1976 using an engine that came out 8 years after the introduction of the Cadillac engine, the Jaguar V12 only made 294 ft lbs of torque.
So doing the math the Cadillac engine makes 30% more torque than the Jaguar V12 and we're not even comparing the high compression version of the Cadillac engine.
I eagerly await your response to my truths.
No! Lets get back to said car this thread was started about!
yupididit said:No! Lets get back to said car this thread was started about!
Yes please. Who can step up and save this?
I really am tempted, and have disposable cash after the Wagoneer trip, but my s****er's full for full tilt projects.
In reply to Stampie :
I was trying to make it interesting small talk not restart a war. Yes the Cadillac makes a lot of torque. Heck it was able to get the Eldorado from 0-60 in only 9.6 seconds. I raced a 1955 Cadillac Eldorado with 2 four barrels in my 1955 Chevy hobby stocker and while the Buick 401's could beat me off the corner at the end of the straight I'd just power by them That was 1963
My favorite trip was the year dad took the 1959 Cadillac Eldorado convertible and we went from Minnesota out to California and Back. That Air ride suspension was fun!!
incidentally the V12 came out in 1971 I don't know off the top of my head when 500 came out wasn't right about then? I do know the Jag compression was 7.8-1 until 1981.
I do hope you go ahead and do the Modified. Use whatever engine you prefer. If I can help you get it I'll be glad to. Just a question, does the Cadillac share the BOP bell-housing bolt pattern? Or is like the Jaguar with its own bolt pattern?
I've seen a flat bar of steel used on a lot of trans missions to select gears. It would probably take you less than a 1/2 hour to fabricate. ( and look really original too)
Cadillac actually looked at going back to a v12 in the mid 60s and had designed abd tested engines but they were making less power and torque then the v8 it was supposed to replace so it was scrapped and the 472 and 500 was introduced instead
In reply to MotorsportsGordon :
I do hope someone takes this car and makes a modified of it. It would really be something and wouldn't have to be expensive to be fast.
We used to build those for extremely little money. They started out like hobby stockers but if you switched motors you went into modifieds. The most common engine was the Buick 401 because of its great bottom end torque. I used the Cad because I got one for $15. With the dual 4 barrels. It still bolted up to the LaSall gearbox. Then you were free to cut away any sheet metal except the outside skin and channel it. Tires were junkyard skins. We'd often switch the right front to a Buick hub because they had big tire and that aluminum fined brake. At the same time we'd pull the front coil off chop 2&1/2 coils and replace the Chevy spring Much stiffer! All junkyard stuff and it was rare to have as much as $50 in the car. Entry fee was $1 and if you won the feature you got $50 back plus the qualifying money. So after expenses you might have $45-48. For an evening.
In reply to frenchyd :
You do realize the car in this post is on a G-body chassis. So nothing you have said, except offering to help Stampie get it (super cool move, btw!!!), has any relavance. I know I helped sidetrack, by saying a v12 hot rod would've cool... it would, but really, that was not relevant either! But I actually know that.
If u want a old v12 with torque get a old gmc v12. 625 lbs ft at 2100 rpm. 11.5 litres. it won't physically fit in this application ofcourse.
https://driving.ca/auto-news/entertainment/yes-gmc-made-a-v12-engine-and-it-was-huge
In reply to 03Panther :
Panther are you the brevity police? If so I plead guilty. Some find the diversions interesting.
I explained how the modifieds came about. A year or so later they went from stock frames with body skins on to tube frames simply because A tube frame could be built lighter.
Wider and wider tires came after than and slowly chrome moly worked it's way into the chassis.
During that time the track owners didn't increase the purse any and the guys building cheap low dollar modifies couldn't keep racing. So some nights only a handful of cars were there for the feature. Fans stopped coming. Only a small handful of race tracks still raced the modifieds. Sprint cars wouldn't race for $50 prize money in fact anything less than $500 wouldn't draw enough to put on a good show. So it became Hobby stocks and late models.
I get long winded, myself. And in person, we could swap stories for days without coming up for air.
But I've read the other comments on your unrelated tangents, usually to prove a point, that it doesn't prove.
No, I don't think many on here think your off topic points are a pleasant diversion.
The hive could vote on it?
but I'd get down voted as well, prolly.
In reply to MotorsportsGordon :
I've had a twin turbo'd V12-71. I think it was tuned for 1300hp, who knows on TQ. It would not fit, either. Actually, in a friends shrimp boat, so not really mine. But I help fire it the first time on the stand before we installed it. Technically, that is sorta a gm product...
frenchyd said:In reply to 03Panther :
Some find the diversions interesting.
You are so oblivious it's almost entertaining. Most find that they take away from the content and actual discussion of the threads. You consistently clutter threads up by rambling utter nonsense that has nothing to do with the topic at hand 95% of the time. I largely skip over any thread with more than three posts from you in it unless there's snarky comments from Stampie or yupididit.
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