Overheated MINI

My brother has a 2011 MINI Clubman S with 60k miles. Apparently he was on the highway and it started running rough then died with no idiot lights coming on prior to shutting down. Dealer charged him $3k to replace the entire cooling system, and also replaced a $600 temperature sensor (whoah) at no charge. Now that this is done, they are telling him that the engine may also need to be replaced to the tune of $12k. From what he tells me, the temperature sensor failed and didn't set off the idiot light to provide a warning that the engine was overheating.

First, I'm surprised that before they started working on it they didn't tell him that they engine may be damaged because it overheated to the point of failure. Second, the costs seem crazy to me. I can't imagine this car is worth more than $12k, is it?

He's trying to figure out what do do. They had planned to sell this car as they already have a 2014 version of pretty much the exact same car and a 90's Land Rover. My thinking is that he should see if he can find an independent shop to put a used engine from a totaled car in it and then sell it with paperwork documenting the replacement. He's in the Bay area so I would think there are independent shops that could do this for quite a bit less than $12k. Thoughts?

Is it insured? If so, will it still run and overheat to the point of combustion?

(kidding, of course)

In reply to PeterAK:

Unfortunately those issues are why I passed on Mini's years ago..... I'd take it to an Inependent shop, if necessary, replace the engine, and I wouldn't document the swap to be honest unless the replacement engine had a lot fewer miles.

A MINI and a Land Rover...this guy sure knows how to pick 'em

Yeah I'm surprised they didn't mention the engine potentially being ruined up front. Not only because it's a decision the driver might ditch the car over, but because some of those cooling system components are probably included with a new engine. Saving that news until now seems like an ideal strategy for maximizing the amount of work and parts sales the dealership will get out of this car.

I'm thinking a junkyard engine replacement would be a far better deal. A brand new engine will only have a few more years of life in it, and they're worth exactly the same to the used car market.

Gameboy, I gave him a lot of E36 M3 when he bought the Land Rover. When the MINI died, he sent me a picture of it being loaded onto a flatbed with the message that the Land Rover may be the most reliable vehicle he owns...

What's the powertrain warranty on those things?

If it's out of warranty, I'd put a used engine in it at an independent shop, sell it for what he can and give up his bloody love of British (at least in heritage) cars.

I'm surprised he didn't get a CEL code and not convinced he didn't. Problem is, sometimes you can drive forever with it on, and sometimes you can't. Could be he just had eyes up when it went and he had no time to see it.

In any case, if his cooling failure was like mine, then the real issue was that the thermostat housing cracked (common failure) and the code that was thrown was a temperature sensor code. The temperature sensor is on the top of the thermostat housing, so it wouldn't have sent an overheating code when the coolant went away, but a code that looks more like the sensor isn't working.

The sensor doesn't cost much (and may not have even been bad), but replacing the housing and the sensor could easily have been $600. The part is about $125 and it takes a lot of work to strip off the stuff on top of the engine to get to it.

None of that really helps you, of course, but I think the junkyard engine and independent shop thing is the way to go. Dealership charges for parts and labor treat the MINI like it was a BMW.

PeterAK wrote: Gameboy, I gave him a lot of E36 M3 when he bought the Land Rover. When the MINI died, he sent me a picture of it being loaded onto a flatbed with the message that the Land Rover may be the most reliable vehicle he owns...

Man, what did you DO to that poor guy when you were kids?

Other than that, what GameboyRMH said...

PeterAK wrote: Second, the costs seem crazy to me. I can't imagine this car is worth more than $12k, is it?

Things cost what they cost independent of what a vehicle is worth.

Right now the car is worth about $150-200 depending on local scrap prices.

I would definitely go to an independent shop, if you can find one that knows something about a MINI. For starters, their labor rate is potentially much less, and your brother would have more choices as to what to do with the engine. Keep in mind that it might be repairable and not a big lump of scrap. In most cases, the head takes the brunt of an overheat, not the entire thing. Maybe a new (used) head and a freshen could do the trick. That would be far less than the 12k stated.

Of course what is the condition of the turbo after this? Did it overheat too? If so, that's another chunk of change.

Just a thought.

Tell him to stop buying vehicles that have British heritage

I would bypass the dealer and speak to a regional service rep. There is a possibility that the manufacturer will step up and help with the repairs. It doesn't cost anything to do this and he might get lucky. I would also have an independent garage check the motor and verify its condition. A dealership will only replace the motor with new due to liability concerns on their part. If they put a new motor in it, the factory warranties the motor vs. if they repair it, they are on the hook for any issues.

WTH, does not every Mini come with a coolant temp GAUGE??? And if so, HOW can a driver not see the temp climing into the red???

92dxman wrote: Tell him to stop buying vehicles that have British heritage

And if he must buy British, he should get a Lotus Esprit turbo. At least he would look cool standing next to it on the side of the road waiting for a tow.

Toebra wrote:

92dxman wrote: Tell him to stop buying vehicles that have British heritage

And if he must buy British, he should get a Lotus Esprit turbo. At least he would look cool standing next to it on the side of the road waiting for the fire truck to arrive FTFY .

Toebra wrote:

92dxman wrote: Tell him to stop buying vehicles that have British heritage

And if he must buy British, he should get a Lotus Esprit turbo. At least he would look cool standing next to it on the side of the road roasting a hotdog waiting for the firetruck.

Double fixxored

Always thought that the Mini was a BMW. Not that makes it any more reliable.

I wouldn't put a pile of money into a heap that is not worth a plum nickle.

Send it to the auction, get something (not at the auction) that does not have a 100+$ temp sensor.

So does the thing start and run or not?

If they did a whole damn cooling system overhaul.. Without using a breaker bar to check if the bottom end is seized and not checking engine oil level/condition, its a pretty inept shop he took it to.

Hell even with no coolant in the car you are still fine to start it up and run for a minute to hear it run. There's no excuse for not checking this before replacing everything in the cooling system.

What exactly did they replace? Only things truly needed are water pump and thermostat housing(which has the sensors integral to it). Should have been no more than 1k at most for these items. Sometimes the coolant bottle leaks too, not much more $ for that though.

Sounds like they were relying on your friend to throw good money after bad to pad their pockets.

Minis are good at taking money.

I had a Mini once that had a failed timing chain tensioner(bent valves), blown turbo (tons of impeller play), blown head gasket, play in and evidence of a leaking water pump, no coolant, basically no oil, and happened to be near ready for a clutch too. The owner neglected the coolant leak and smell, ignored the light on the dash which will set for a "thermostat coolant temp sensor reading high" which it defaults to when the probe is not covered in liquid(high voltage feedback, not high temperature technically), the repeated short trips(3mi commute he had) with no coolant eventually caused the head to warp and it puked oil out the front right corner smoking badly, ignored again... I suspect then the turbo started starving for oil about the same time the chain started rattling from low oil pressure, relying on the ratcheting mechanism inside to not completely collapse, and finally eventually the guides wore further until it ejected the chain via wiping out the top guide.

Best part?

He had the check engine light read by his mechanic friend. P0340 cam position sensor signal was stored along with the coolant temp code. He told me it needed a cam sensor. Lol.

Hint: the camshaft sensor signal will not be readable if the CAMSHAFT DOESNT SPIN when you try to start it