I was inspired by that thread a couple days ago of someone modifying their Echo for autocross with good results, and thought I'd try looking at my local CL for good examples.
I've noticed that there's 3 subcompact offerings from Toyota from the late 90s to early 00s, and was wondering what would be the best base to start with? Which car is the most fun to drive?
Paseo for sure. 90’s quirky, parts bin upgrades. Stronger chassis. Easier motor swaps.
The echo is newer though, and I don’t know what kind of stuff is being done with them. The 4wd Tercel could be converted to rwd with a 4age for some weird shenanigans.
I always see a Paseo in my parking garage at work and am amazed at how tiny it is! I have had thoughts about how it would do in rallycross, to be honest :)
Mechanically the Paseo and Tercel are identical, some slight differences between the 4th and 5th generation Tercel with the 1st and 2nd Paseo. The Echo, in the US is ok, it's a Toyota Platz elsewhere in the world. The Echo Canada got is the Toyota Vitz and I think those are awesome, but I'm in the US, don't know where you are.
The Tercel at the challenge this year and other years is owned by member echoechoecho who also had an Echo (imagine that!). I'm sure he'll chime in.
There are a few of us on here that have and love the Tercel, mostly the 5th (and last) gen, '95-'99.
They are tiny and light and really tossable. Stock they weigh in at about 1800#. They're very simple, very basic cars. Mac struts up front, torsion beam out back. You know they say it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow, well, this car is slow, and a lot of fun.
Mine's awaiting an engine swap.
I will say, there's very little in the way of aftermarket for any of these cars. They had a small amount of support when they were still new-ish but that's long dried up. Suspension and brakes from the ep90/91 Starlet sold elsewhere in the world bolt up. There's a few things you can do as far as parts bin upgrades.
If you get creative and/or have a welder and grinder you can do anything. I treat mine as kind of an inexpensive, blank canvas.
The Echo has a sweet little alum/alum 1.5 liter 1nxfe. It's the same engine that's in the (mechanically identical) Scion xA, and 1st gen xB, and still currently used in the Yaris. Jason Isely cranks some good na power from his H Production multi-runoffs winning Yaris, and Justin Crenshaw has a 411 wheel hp turbo xA that competed at this years UTCC. Tuning and/or extracting power is not as cheap or as well documented as more popular engines out there, but it can be done.
Carson is substantially correct about the commonality between the Paseo and the Tercel, but there are a couple of nuances that it might be good to know. First, the Paseo has noticeably quicker steering, and the rack is a total drop-in AFAIK. Second, the 1st-gen (92-95) Paseos have the best stock brakes in the tribe, although that information has been pretty much superseded these days by the several upgrades floating around using calipers and rotors from other models & brands.
I'm a pretty big fan of 5spd Echo sedans with body color cladding and some nice 15s on them. I like the interior! An Echo coupe I have no words for because you can't talk while your gag reflex is active. Maybe that's a bit hyperbolic but god is the coupe hideously proportioned. At least the 4 door can blame its looks at least partially on practical concerns. I think the Tercel is the best looking of the bunch by far.
I'd love to have the Canadian market Echo hatch. There was one for sale in the Ann Arbor area a few years ago, but I was 4th in line or something. 
Echo = Scion xA = Scion xB (first gen) = Yaris from a driveline and parts standpoint. The xA would be my first choice for the platform if I didn't want the room in the xB.
Matt Barnes used to rally a Paseo back in the day :)
DeadSkunk said:I'd love to have the Canadian market Echo hatch. There was one for sale in the Ann Arbor area a few years ago, but I was 4th in line or something.
Oh man, this thing was on the Kazoo Craigslist for months. Finally disappeared around the end of th summer. Vitz/Echo for sale I posted it here, but there wasn't really any interest.
For the OP, in a similar vein, here's my old Yaris thread: Yaris Thread A year into ownership, I wouldn't steer you away from one. I've never really tried to do any sort of motorsports with it, but its a great little commuter, and it wouldn't take more than about 20 or 30 hp to make it REALLY fun.
Surprise.......it's back up for sale!
https://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/cto/d/2005-toyota-echo-rs/6732093504.html
In reply to DeadSkunk :
EDIT: Since it's supposed to be local, I might be able to put eyes on it if anyone's interested.
Sorry it was basically my fault the SCCA removed the Echo from STF and put it in STS where it cant hang with the civics and miatas. BTW I have put the Echo on two wheels scary.... Echo is much lighter thus faster than the XA or XB but the gearing is better in the scions.
Paseo and Tercel are of the same bones basically everthing swaps, 4th gen Tercel has a SOHC 3efe. the 2nd gen paseo and 5th gen Tercel has the DOHC 5efe and the 1st gen paseo has the early DOHC 5efe. The Tercel is lighter but taller than the paseo.
Here is my 95 Tercel:
If you wanted to make a super Terseo, you swap the all aluminum 1nzfe from a XA/XB (better trans/gearing) into it. you would only need to fab one engine mount, 2 of the 3 are identical. Just a thought Ive been thinking about for a very long time.
irish44j said:Matt Barnes used to rally a Paseo back in the day :)
A friend of mine has the suspension off this car...and a turbo paseo waiting to receive it
It's worth mentioning that all 4 challenge banquets I've attended, I've spent thinking about how the echoechoecho guys do it right, and how I should be more like them.
Cheap, light, reliable, dd able car that gets driven instead of worked on, and therefore is very well developed and has smart mods.
It's definitely a great path to follow.
DeadSkunk said:Surprise.......it's back up for sale!
https://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/cto/d/2005-toyota-echo-rs/6732093504.html
On something like this that won’t be legal in the US for another 11+ years, could you buy it now & stash it somewhere, then register it in 2030 and be ok?
In reply to Pete Gossett :
Not saying this means anything, but it's got what appears to be a valid, current Michigan plate on it. My guess is no one at the DMV knows there's a difference between a US spec Echo and a Canadian spec Echo . . . and that they aren't even the same car. I'm a little surprised it didn't get flagged because of the VIN, but who knows?
It may be legally imported , even though it wasn't sold here. If you already own a vehicle you can bring it with you when you move from Canada to the US. You have to get letters from the manufacturers stating whether the vehicle does, or does not meet US regulations. You can resell a vehicle that does. So, if Toyota Canada issued such a letter for this car it may have been legally sold. A long shot.
I also know of situations where people brought a non-compliant car and eventually sold it. The DMV didn't blink an eye and issued new tags to the new owner.
In reply to DeadSkunk :
Nice! So when are you buying it?
Wow. This thread made me do se wikipediaing, and apparently the xa and xb use the same basic engine as the prius.
The Prius however has forged connecting rods and 13.0:1 compression (late closing intake valve means effective compression is much lower). This was all done for efficiency.
I wonder if you could just swap the xa/xb cams into the Prius motor and connect the mt from the xa/xb? 13:1 compression and the long stroke seems like it could make good power at lower (useable) rpm. E85 might be a good plan however.
Robbie said:Wow. This thread made me do se wikipediaing, and apparently the xa and xb use the same basic engine as the prius.
The Prius however has forged connecting rods and 13.0:1 compression (late closing intake valve means effective compression is much lower). This was all done for efficiency.
I wonder if you could just swap the xa/xb cams into the Prius motor and connect the mt from the xa/xb? 13:1 compression and the long stroke seems like it could make good power at lower (useable) rpm. E85 might be a good plan however.
It can be done, someone in puerto rico installed prius pistons in an echo, but you lose VVTI as I think the one of the valves would hit the piston, not sure though.
DeadSkunk said:It may be legally imported , even though it wasn't sold here. If you already own a vehicle you can bring it with you when you move from Canada to the US. You have to get letters from the manufacturers stating whether the vehicle does, or does not meet US regulations. You can resell a vehicle that does. So, if Toyota Canada issued such a letter for this car it may have been legally sold. A long shot.
Canadian new-car regulations are more or less the same as the US, so the main difference between what is sold in Canada vs. US is what they expect the market to want. So a car sold new in Canada is almost certainly going to meet US emissions and safety regulations, even if it was never actually sold in the US.
My '95 tercel coupe base model with 4 speed ice racer blew up the original 5efe so I swapped in a 4efe jdm engine.
Swapped in a jdm 4efe and did a complete paseo harness and ecu swap along with the paseo intake manifold,pretty decent combo for essentially stock 1300cc.
Much better rev limit with the paseo ecu,valves will float a bit just before the limiter though:)
Major weight saving efforts had ready to race weight at approx 1500lbs,ran the car 4 seasons resulting in 4 class and 2 overall street stud titles.
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