Payload capacity when towing

I am looking into picking up a tow vehicle/daily driver for shuttling my 1 year old around.  I have a collection of older BMWs that just wouldn't fare well in an accident.  There is enough safety in them for me but not enough for my son in the back seat.  I would love to pickup a manual Tacoma for non-towing duties but I am not sure if it has enough payload capacity for my towing needs.  When I looked through the other mid sized options, I couldn't figure out if anything has enough payload capacity for me.  Could you check my math and see if I have screwed up the calculation?

I have an 16" open deck steel trailer that weighs ~1200 lbs.  It was built to be light by the original owner.

I will be towing one of three cars that currently weigh 2700 lbs, 2500 lbs, and 1500 lbs.  An average tow day is about 5 hours around Central Florida.  I make it up to the Appalachians about once or twice a year but that is it for mountains.

I normally carry an extra set of tires, a jack, and a bag of tools that weigh ~200 lbs

I will almost always have four passengers between me, my wife, my son, and a grand parent for at least part of every tow.  Lets call this ~750 lbs.

Outdoor gear including a cooler, table, stove, canopy, and overnight bags weigh ~100-200lbs depending on the trip.

Worse case scenario, I am looking at a 4000 lb trailer, 500lbs tongue weight, and 1100 lbs of people and stuff in the vehicle.  I started looking through regular suspects for mid sized towing and found that 1600lbs is at the top of the payload capacity for almost everything.

• Toyota Tacoma: 1620 lbs
• Ford Ranger: 1840 lbs
• Chevrolet Colorado: 1537 lbs
• Porsche Cayenne: 1657 lbs
• VW Touareg: 1386 lbs
• Toyota Tundra: 1730 lbs
• Ford F150 2.7 ecoboost supercrew: probably 2200 lbs (Ford makes it really hard to figure this out)

Am I looking at the right numbers here?  All of these cars have a 6000+ lb tow rating and are at least occasionally suggested as potential tow vehicles.  Some half ton trucks have a sub-2000 lb payload capacity as well.  I was pretty surprised by the Tundra/Sequoia and the Ram 1500.  As long as I am under the GCVW, is it ok to sit within 5% of the GVWR while pulling a trailer all day?

Hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong,  but I think your idea that everything in the truck plus your tongue weight would be how to measure payload.  I would assume you are safe with a 1600 lb payload capacity.

here is something from CR that might help

Here’s an example from Chevrolet that shows the math:

Trailer weight: 10,000 pounds

Pickup truck GVWR: 7,000 pounds

Pickup truck weight before added payload: 5,500 pounds

Payload added to pickup:

• Two occupants: 300 pounds
• Extra cargo: 100 pounds
• Trailer hitch equipment: 75 pounds
• Trailer tongue weight: 1,000 pounds (10 percent of trailer weight)

Total payload: 1,475 pounds

Tow vehicle weight (5,500 pounds) + Payload (1,475 pounds) = 6,975 pounds, which is just shy of the truck’s 7,000-pound GVWR.

As this example shows, a pickup truck’s payload adds up quickly when towing, in large part because of the trailer’s tongue weight. This means that if you’re towing near your truck’s limits, you might have to leave some cargo or passengers at home to stay within its safe capacities.  

from here https://www.consumerreports.org/pickup-trucks/how-much-truck-do-you-need-to-tow-that-trailer/

If you're running out of payload but still have headroom on GCVW move tools and stuff to the trailer. 
 

and yeah, sounds like you've got it right in general. 

As long as you're within the numbers it'll be fine, just be aware that you're (at least theoretically) approaching the limits. Most people don't really even pay attention to this and as a result there's probably lots of people out there exceeding payload capacity and doing just fine. As you kinda pointed out, ford particularly but really everyone makes it incredibly difficult to figure out what the numbers actually are. There's almost certainly a bunch of people out there as well towing 10k lb RV trailers with f150s only rated for 8k because they saw the commercial that said they were rated for (up to) 12k and didn't realize that there's only one very specific option combo that gets that rating.

After years of towing race cars around with various things more is always better.  After a long day or weekend at the track getting into the bigger truck and just driving home with the trailer is so much better than having to white knuckle it home being at the limits of your vehicle.  Add in being tired and trust me it is no fun.  

People will argue this point saying they tow there Miata and all there gear with a station wagon and if it works for them great but I have always wanted overkill in my tow vehicles.  

Where it may hurt you is the DD part of things but I never minded driving a large vehicle.  

You do you.  Just my $.02

Edit: Oh another thing that I found when towing that is semi weight related but more so the wheelbase of the tow vehicle.  I always will go with a longer wheelbase truck all other things being equal.  It adds so much more stability when towing.  You can not always get the trailer loaded the way you exactly want it (crashed car not being pulled all the way forward on the trailer comes to mind). Or loading something on backwards as it is the only way to load it is another.  The longer wheelbase makes towing a less that optimally weighted trailer better (not perfect) but it helps.  

In reply to dean1484 :

so your saying my idea of towing a classic mini on a 14ft aluminum trailer with a 2 door bronco isnt a good idea?

Looks like you have it right, and are drawing the correct conclusions.  Most passenger vehicles (including 1/2 ton pickups) run out of payload capacity before they run out of towing capacity.  That said, I think a modern half ton pickup would make easy work of the loads you describe, even in lower trim (i.e. without the artificially inflated 13,000 "towing capacity").  My needs are similar to yours and I'm just waiting for the right deal on a 2015+ Ecoboost F-150.  I've ruled out the Tacoma and Colorado, even though technically they could do it.  Narrow track, shorter wheelbase, soft suspension, etc.  None of those things add up to stable towing.

What is the difference in driving feel between a 2018+ mid size for $30K and whatever $15K buys you in a full size?  I could daily a mid sized truck but a full sized supercab doesn't really fit into city driving and parking garages.  Safety technology means I need to stay pretty new on my daily driver so I would probably spend about $15K on it.  So far, I have towed long distance with a Ford Flex, a Dodge B250 van, and a rented Ram 2500.  The one that took the most effort was the van.  Even though it was stable, It was low on power and on brakes.  I had to plan a half mile ahead when I need to make a driving maneuver.

i tow a ~2500lb car (and a 200# toolchest) on a 1600+lb trailer (tongue weight around 600#), with another probably 300-400# or so of total gear and usually 2 people (350#), occasionally 3 (so 500#)....minus 100# of rear seats deleted). 

Sequoia is rated for 6700 GVWR and weighs about 5000 empty. So I'm usually still under GVWR. Rated to tow 6500, so well under that.

For a lot of things, I feel like the payload capacity has a lot to do with soft factory springs that compress too much. This is definitely the case with the Sequoia, but with airbags added, it tows great. We've done several 1000+ mile tows with full crew/gear with zero drama. 

with that load (plus 100lbs of wheels/tires on the roof rack and two full gas cans on the trailer too) and about 25psi in the rear airbags: 

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

The problem I have run into is that everyone in my family is over 6' tall with most over 6'3".  Four of us in the car is easily 1000 lbs of weight.  It makes both the Tundra and Sequoia non starters if I use the letter of the law gvwr.

I have only been towing cars for a year or two and I have not yet run into the panic situation that encourages everyone to buy 3/4 ton trucks.  I can't tell if I have gotten lucky or if I am just doing the setup parts right.

I don’t understand where some manufacturers get their numbers. I’ve seen a lot of trucks where their listed curb weights plus their payload capacity is well over their max gross vehicle weight. I’ve also seen many where the curb weight plus the max towing capacity is over the max combined GVWR for the truck. What is going on there? 

In reply to ojannen :

How do 4 adults over 6'-3" ride comfortably in a mid sized truck towing a vehicle for any distance?

That's definitely full sized truck territory. 
 

You've done your math right.  After that, the decision is yours.  I can tell you there is no way I would want to tow through the Appalacians with 4 adults in a mid sized truck.

I own one of those unicorns- an F150 with an Ecoboost that is fully optioned for a towing capacity of 13,500 lbs. 

I've towed 9000 lbs with it. There's no way I would tow 13,500.

Agree towing capacity is not the critical number, payload and specifically rear wheels capacity is what usually gets hit first.  I would put as much gear as possible in the trailer and load it right over the trailer axle to keep tongue weight unchanged.  What to pull it with? Either a full size SUV or pickup.  YMMV, a buddy is pulling a 4500 travel trailer with a 6 cyl Kia SUV. He said the Kia is rated to 5000, but after a few months pulling is seeing why I said buy a pickup.

In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :

What is the cutover point where you want a full sized truck for Interstates/Great Smokey Mountain Expressway in the Appalachians?  I have towed a tire trailer over the mountains a few times in my Mini so 500 lbs is probably ok in a midsized truck.  You have suggested that 4000 lbs on a 16" trailer requires a full sized.  At what trailer weight would you be comfortable in a mid sized with a 6500 lb tow rating and a full passenger load: 3000 lbs, 2500 lbs, etc?

In reply to ojannen :

I can't make a math problem out of it. All vehicles tow differently, and all people have different comfort levels. 
 

My starting point is not the trailer. It's the full adult load. I would not be comfortable with 4 6' adults in a mid sized truck at all. Add a few hundred miles of travel, and towing at or near the limits in the mountains makes the whole thing pretty white knuckled.

Are you comfortable with 4 large adults in a mid sized truck?

The legroom in the back of my Ecoboost is phenomenal. My old extended cab F250 was pretty tight. 
 

My sons are 6'-3".  We could go coast to coast with no issues at all in the Ecoboost.  We'd be unhappy in a mid size.

Traditional wisdom is that 12-20% of trailer weight should be on the tongue for stability, so loading down the trailer instead of the vehicle only helps to a point with the payload issue.

Your problem isn't the trailer as much as the amount of meat you plan to haul; you can't put people in the trailer (unless you really don't like them).  I've towed a 4000lb trailer with my wife's Buick Enclave; once I added a brake controller it was fine, but it was just me in the car.  If I was also hauling three of my biggest friends, it would have been a different story.

I also live near the city, and I don't love full size trucks.  I would love to move into a Tacoma, but when I run the math it's really not much better than the Sienna van I already own.  That and the back seat is tight for my kids (ages 12 and 14), and downright uncomfortable for anyone bigger.  I'll have to make a full size truck work.

One other piece to consider since you are on the edge for midsize/full-size and expressed desire for a Manual Trans.  As a previous Tacoma 6 speed owner, the Tacoma (Frontier payload is way to low for what you want) manual trans has Hilariously inappropriate gearing in reverse.  It's WAY to high.  With a trailer on it's just constant clutch slipping.  I had a 4WD so I would use 4 Low for reverse but binding in the front axle made trailer backing supper frustrating.  Apparently someone makes a electronics device that allows for 2 Low to solve this problem. 

In reply to nocones :

I have read about that problem on the Tacomas too.  Putting my trailer into my back yard means putting an 80" wide trailer through an 82" gap in the fence.  I know that is going to be a problem.

When we had our baby, we traded in a car for an Ford Flex Ecoboost.  I picked it because it had the most second row room of any car or truck in any size class in it's price range.  I didn't have a full understanding of tow ratings and payload ratings at the time and thought that a 4500lb tow rating was enough.  I towed a 4000lb trailer to North Carolina and Iowa on separate trips.  There were no white knuckle moments and no real stress.  Once I figured out how overweight I was, I rented a truck for the next trip.  Other than setting the cruise control to 75 instead of 65 and using the cool Jake brake instead of pulling a paddle for downhills, it was exactly the same.

Now, I have an autocross car with a target weight of 2100 lbs and a little british car with a likely weight under 1500 lbs.  I travel once or twice a year with the rallycross car and it may make sense to rent a truck for those trips.  How much vehicle do I realistically need to pull a 16" open trailer that weighs 2600 lbs?  I am not really opposed to a full sized truck and a trailer that has actual storage.  It would just sit 27 days out of every month because of where I daily drive.

In reply to ojannen :

You keep asking about the truck and trailer weight. 
 

We keep asking about the people and interior cab space.

If the cars you tow still have windows and can be locked up, then my solution is take some of the stuff and stash is in the car being towed. I put the gas cans in the trunk of my Datsun when I'm towing it to the races.

If that is not possible add some lockable storage to the trailer, there are lots of clever storage solutions like fender boxes etc. With some clever planning you could probably get the tow vehicle down to around 80% of GVWR. Note you will need to be mindful of the rear axle weight rating and position the load on the trailer accordingly.

For those longer twice a year trips just rent a behemoth and be done with it.

After that find the tow vehicle from your list that is most comfortable for you and your family. If everyone is comfortable you end up making fewer stops which shortens the drive.

Regardless of what you get (2 ton or 1/4 ton truck) it's going to be a compromise; price, size, capability. 90% of your usage is going to be daily driver. On a 5 hour drive going 75 versus 65 gets you there 45 minute sooner..........that's not worth the hassle of dealing with a bigger truck on a daily basis. 

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:

If you're running out of payload but still have headroom on GCVW move tools and stuff to the trailer. 
 

and yeah, sounds like you've got it right in general. 

I tried that and it was sketchtastic.  When you are that close to the weight ratings due to a trailer, it turned out to drive much nicer by overloading the truck slightly in order to shave trailer weight.  Had a lot less of the sensation that the trailer was pushing the truck around.