Ferraris are the worst, in my experience. Every single one I've been with on track was poorly driven by an idiot who wouldn't move over to let the Hondas pass.
Just a small example, when I was sixteen I beat a slick shod F40 at an autocross in my 200 dollar Corolla on snow tires, and he was nowhere near the worst Ferrari driver I've seen.
The following video pretty much sums up this thread---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WoDhyJUY2o
ultraclyde wrote: Back to the MINI for a moment. With the track and performannce rep the S has, I was very surprised to find that the vast majority of the MINI community never wrenches on their own car. Even the guys with aftermarket pulleys, suspension, blah blah don't really know a wrench from a hole in the ground. I ran in to this time and time again while looking for hard core, DIY wrench info on a couple of the BIG MINI sites. Thousands and thousands of active members and not ONE how to or look-what-I-did on changing a clutch? Really? Lots of throwout bearing failures, sure, and lots of people paying the dealer to fix it. Kind of sad.
This thread just begged for an unsubstantiated sweeping generalization so I had to throw a couple out out there...
Couldn't agree more on the Mini/web subject, I was disappointed with the slim to nonexistent level of knowledge on those boards.
Only been on track with one Ferarri ever, a modified 308. Guy drove it with gusto too. I had to ride the tail for a few laps just to listen to that fantastic sound. I wish there were more Ferarris out there with the gang!
I pulled up to a Ferrari at a stop light one time. I asked him, "What's the retail on one of those?" He replied, "More than you can afford, pal. Ferrari." My buddy said, "Smoke him." We crushed him.
rotard wrote: I pulled up to a Ferrari at a stop light one time. I asked him, "What's the retail on one of those?" He replied, "More than you can afford, pal. Ferrari." My buddy said, "Smoke him." We crushed him.
Was that after your turboboosters spoolzed and you drove like an a$$hat into oncoming traffic barely missing the wood-panel turbo-dodge minivan?
rotard wrote: I pulled up to a Ferrari at a stop light one time. I asked him, "What's the retail on one of those?" He replied, "More than you can afford, pal. Ferrari." My buddy said, "Smoke him." We crushed him.
I'm glad you made good on that 10 second car.
I must be behind when it comes to cultural anthropology.
So... what do Bob Tullius and John Steed have to do with the thread premise?
m
7pilot wrote: I must be behind when it comes to cultural anthropology. So... what do Bob Tullius and John Steed have to do with the thread premise? m
I had no problem with Mrs Peel striking a pose in or out of her latest Lotus.
Powar wrote:rotard wrote: I pulled up to a Ferrari at a stop light one time. I asked him, "What's the retail on one of those?" He replied, "More than you can afford, pal. Ferrari." My buddy said, "Smoke him." We crushed him.I'm glad you made good on that 10 second car.
Don't hate. I inspired an entire generation of car enthusiasts. It was like Point Break with cars. Dude.
I autocross an MGB. The number of people still competing in these dinosaurs is really small
mguar wrote:DaewooOfDeath wrote: Ferraris are the worst, in my experience. Every single one I've been with on track was poorly driven by an idiot who wouldn't move over to let the Hondas pass. Just a small example, when I was sixteen I beat a slick shod F40 at an autocross in my 200 dollar Corolla on snow tires, and he was nowhere near the worst Ferrari driver I've seen.Well the question wasn't about how good a driver you are.. Rather if the car you drive tends to be owned by posers or playa's. With regard your comment about Ferrari drivers. Too bad.. There are some Ferrari drivers who are better drivers than I'll ever be.. What's more they are putting their multimillion dollar car on the track with me.. There are some mediocre ones to be sure, but I suppose as long as there is that huge divide between them and the rest of us. Some Ferrari's cost more to ensure for a month than I spent on the last new car I bought.. Maintenance on one is shocking.. $50,000 isn't that unusual a repair bill and $3000 oil changes are considered cheap..
I race hoopties. My track cars have been, in order, a 1980 Corolla, a 1990 Talon AWD, a 1978 Celica and a 98 Daewoo.
There are a bunch of reasons I don't like Ferraris, and the poser factor is a big part of it. I'm not saying they are all poorly driven, just the ones I've shared a track with. Talking with the guys who've held me up at track events or managed to finish dead last on PAX, the story usually goes something like this.
"I bought it because of mystique/looks/sound/snob appeal and then I watched a Formula One race. Ferrari makes F1 cars. F1 cars race on tracks. I will go to a track."
I'm sure this is different in the ranks of serious drivers, and if you're Nigel Mansel and have a trillionty dollars, I can totally understand buying a 599GTO. But at the local level, in my experience and my experience alone, the douche factor has just been astronomical.
As for them spending a lot of money on their cars, yah, I know. That's another reason I'll never buy a Ferrari regardless of how wealthy I become. I really don't like they way they are engineered.
I own a TR8 and haven't met a TR8 owner poser yet. They all get driven hard. Impossible not to. The posing is left for the MGB/TR6 crowd.
It's hard to pose with a TR8. 
DaewooOfDeath wrote:mguar wrote:I race hoopties. My track cars have been, in order, a 1980 Corolla, a 1990 Talon AWD, a 1978 Celica and a 98 Daewoo. There are a bunch of reasons I don't like Ferraris, and the poser factor is a big part of it. I'm not saying they are all poorly driven, just the ones I've shared a track with. Talking with the guys who've held me up at track events or managed to finish dead last on PAX, the story usually goes something like this. "I bought it because of mystique/looks/sound/snob appeal and then I watched a Formula One race. Ferrari makes F1 cars. F1 cars race on tracks. I will go to a track." I'm sure this is different in the ranks of serious drivers, and if you're Nigel Mansel and have a trillionty dollars, I can totally understand buying a 599GTO. But at the local level, in my experience and my experience alone, the douche factor has just been astronomical. As for them spending a lot of money on their cars, yah, I know. That's another reason I'll never buy a Ferrari regardless of how wealthy I become. I really don't like they way they are engineered.DaewooOfDeath wrote: Ferraris are the worst, in my experience. Every single one I've been with on track was poorly driven by an idiot who wouldn't move over to let the Hondas pass. Just a small example, when I was sixteen I beat a slick shod F40 at an autocross in my 200 dollar Corolla on snow tires, and he was nowhere near the worst Ferrari driver I've seen.Well the question wasn't about how good a driver you are.. Rather if the car you drive tends to be owned by posers or playa's. With regard your comment about Ferrari drivers. Too bad.. There are some Ferrari drivers who are better drivers than I'll ever be.. What's more they are putting their multimillion dollar car on the track with me.. There are some mediocre ones to be sure, but I suppose as long as there is that huge divide between them and the rest of us. Some Ferrari's cost more to ensure for a month than I spent on the last new car I bought.. Maintenance on one is shocking.. $50,000 isn't that unusual a repair bill and $3000 oil changes are considered cheap..
You sound kind of bitter or something.
rotard wrote: You sound kind of bitter or something.
No, just don't like the drivers I've met.
mguar wrote: Your statement about not liking the way Ferrari's are engineered intrigues me.. What do you find objectionable? While the idea of spending $3000 for an oil change offends my senses at my present income level, I can well imagine the circumstances whereby that would be trivial.. (It involves winning a really big lottery)I do know Mercedes Benz drivers who spend as much and more. Also that's not unheard of with some BMW owners either.. Yes there is a lot of pleasure in beating a person who out spent you 20 or 200 to 1 on the race track.. However the fact that they are there no matter how cautious a driver they may be makes them not a poser (in my humble opinion)
Engineering, hmm. Let me explain this as a contrast between the 355 with the high end sports car I seriously lust after, the same generation 911 GT3.
The GT3 uses a compact, light weight engine with a very low center of gravity. It has a low cylinder count in order to improve efficiency (important in endurance racing), improve packaging and reliability. It uses a conventional manual box in order to maximize reliability and lower weight. It has a rear engine in order to maximize practicality in a sports car shape. It is one of the toughest, heartiest sports cars you can buy. People have raced dead stock ones at 24 hour enduros with no problems.
Porsche backs the car with all sorts of racing programs and, if you buy their kits, you can take a short cut to the pointy end of dozens of racing series.
The F355 uses an externally large, heavy engine with 40 valves in order to increase the number of valve seats you can pound into oblivion after 10k miles. It has too many cylinders for the displacement so that Ferrari could rev it higher (although the Porsche has the same redline), but this results in middling output, horrid efficiency, greater complexity and less reliability. It doesn't package very well (it's taller than most straight sixes), it doesn't have a particularly good center of gravity. It's a mid engine, longitudinal design, so there's less space. It's one of the least reliable sports cars you can buy. It has nowhere near the racing success and it is several times more expensive. It's gearbox is heavy, finiky and will not last beyond 50k miles.
It almost seems as if Ferrari made it as complex and unreliable as possible. The second transmission in the front of the FF that is designed to slip the clutch whenever you're moving is another example. 3 liter v12s, 4,000 lb two seaters, the fact that getting 100k miles out of one is like getting 300k miles out of anything else. This is why I don't like the way they are engineered.
mguar wrote: With that as a basis for comment what are your cars? Note: Not what you are, rather who do you tend to see driving your car (or cars) of interest?
Weirdos who make Studebaker enthusiasts look sane and normal.
I do not say this with any ill intent - every person I've met who owned one of these cars - all four of them! - was an okay guy. We're just... we don't really fit anywhere on the player/poser scale. Not even on the Y- or Z-axis.
alfadriver wrote: As much as pousers are the bane of, well, everything. if they did not exist, many of the coolest cars would never...
...last long enough, in good condition, for poor schlubs like me/much of the GRM community to be able to find a nice, cheap example in 20-25 years.
mguar wrote:Curmudgeon wrote: Me? I DD a big ol' black SUV. It's older but it's paid for, that way I have disposable toy money.OK Fair enough.. You're probably correct I shouldn't use the language of youth.. Not at 63 &1/2 Those toys you speak of? Do you ever drive one in a race, autocross, or any high speed event? doesn't need to be wheel to wheel. If so then you are a playa.. Do you feel that most of those who own similar toys are playa's or posers. Mind you I'm not saying that if you don't race you are a bad person.. I may not understand why you own a high performance car if you only drive near the speed limit.. but I'll respect your right to own it..
Definitions:
Poseur = someone who buys a high end anything for the 'lookit me' aspect only. To them, appearances rule and they are willing to destroy themselves to keep those appearances up. Lots of them are in credit card (and other) debt so deep if they sneeze or fart they will drown. Generally they also have a ginormous two story house in the 'right' part of town and are also bad upside down in it.
Playa/balla = someone who buys a high end car to pick up ho's and bitches (loose women to old coots like us). Those cars usually wear rented 24 inch spinnaz. Their car can ride like a dump truck and handle like a garbage scow but it's gotta look cool so the ho's will hop on board. Kind of the human equivalent of the bowerbird.
I don't really have a problem with someone who owns a high end car unless they are an ass about it, which seems to be the rule. Like the guy who parked his Ferrari in my (clearly marked off) race car parking spot at an autocross in Greer, SC a few years ago, meaning I had to leave my race car in the 'aisle', partially blocking access for other racers. That chapped my ass. But then there was the guy who drove his Ferrari to the top of the Wolf Ridge hillclimb course and was most appreciative of the (mostly home built) machinery which was vying for the Two Minute Club. Really nice fella.
By the way, 53 1/2 here. I have Casper, the 1974 Jensen Healey that I restored myself, the Jensenator (rotary powered Jensen Healey) that I built myself and the Tracker (1980 XS650 Yamaha) that was given to me in boxes and that I resto-modded. I have owned and restored a whole heap of various British tin out of the sheer love of the aggravating damn things. My dad owned 4 XJS's and two E types and was also a hot rod nut, there are some old home movies showing him looping an MG TD on the Sebring airfield race course. (So I guess I come by it honestly.) He worked on his own stuff; he and I restored a 1948 Harley Panhead and a 1932 Plymoth hotrod powered by a SBC and 3 speed. He showed me how to, among other things, to make a gasket out of gasket paper using a small hammer. Then there was the radically customized (and very fast! 327/4speed) 1956 Corvette that he and I put the engine and transmission in and he let me drive before I had a drivers' license. We rode dirt bikes together. So no Pops wasn't a poseur even though he drove Jags.
Curmudgeon wrote: I don't really have a problem with someone who owns a high end car unless they are an ass about it, which seems to be the rule. Like the guy who parked his Ferrari in my (clearly marked off) race car parking spot at an autocross in Greer, SC a few years ago, meaning I had to leave my race car in the 'aisle', partially blocking access for other racers.
Did you have a set of jackstands that you could afford to do without? 
Yep, Dad went to a race down there where you basically showed up, paid your entry, taped your headlights and went racing. His first wife was in charge of the camera and she got a whopping ~15 seconds which included him looping. I think her camera skills were why they got divorced.
I'd fall in the "Broke" category.
mguar wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: Sounds like you dad was a cool guy, I'm sure I'd like meeting him.. (I take it he looped his MGTD while racing it at Sebring?) Anyone who owned and worked on Jensen Healey's is also cool in my mind.. Having been a racer yourself in my mind that makes you a playa. As for being an Ass, when I spun the bearings on my MGTD that I drove to the race track. The only offer of a trailer came from a Ferrari racer who unloaded his 250 GTO Ferrari and drove it home through weekend traffic. Not long after that happened a 250 Ferrari GTO sold for 15 million dollars.. Hang around the track and some of those Ferrari's are driven at their owners limits.. Some are more or less paraded so the owner can say he did it but I'm sure that's also true at Porsche , BMW. Etc. events.. Frankly I don't care if they are slower than snot in January. show up on the race track and try and you stop being a poser..
I suspect you're right. The Ferrari club in Northern Nevada is notorious, and that's where I've had literally all my Ferrari owner experiences. Not fair to assume it's that way everywhere.
I also don't have a problem with slower than snot, I race a Daewoo. The problem I was referring to was holding everybody up and refusing to give point buys.
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