ponderings...

has anyone ever tried to run an electric autocross car? I'm not talking about a hybrid or a Challenge build, I'm talking about campaigning an A-mod or B-mod with electric power to try to get some sort of competitive advantage. from what I can tell, the SCCA hasn't addressed alternative power sources yet (hydrogen fuel cell, straight battery power, steam, hamster wheels, etc), although they do stick all variations of the Tesla Roadster in Super-Stock, probably due to it's Elise roots more than anything else so I'm guessing they aren't resistant to cars powered by lightning bolts. think about it, in most cases stump-pulling torque from 0rpm, very very efficient, no need for more than one gear or any form of a clutch, or really any instrumentation relating to rotational speed (either wheelspeed or engine RPM), realistically you only need a battery capacity gauge somewhere (near the batteries, perhaps?) and enough batteries on board to give you a range of 30 miles or so, and battery technology is becoming such that you can get more voltage and amperage and capacity out of a smaller and lighter battery than was possible even 5 years ago. it's been proven that electric motors can hold their own in motorsports, the A123 Killacycle managed a 7.864s @ 169mph quarter mile time (not sure how that compares to traditional drag bikes in the 1/4 mile but it's damned impressive), so other than weight and it being severely unproven and uncharted territory, is there any reason NOT to try an electric cone killer?

It has been done with older technology. To do it well would require about 10-15k in parts maybe more.

saw a electric golf cart in the early 90's run after the event was done. it was the clean up truck but the guys took turns on the course...

We have a couple electrics that run out at our local events. Can't speak as to their performance as the drivers are doing it more to shake down the cars, so I've yet to see what I thought was a "full-throttle" run.

It's sensical to me, though, and along the same lines, I'm interested in how the CR-Z is going to perform with the extra torque bump down low.

ReverendDexter wrote: I'm interested in how the CR-Z is going to perform with the extra torque bump down low.

I think the biggest challenge for the CR-Z (and any other hybrid) may be keeping sufficient charge in the batteries to complete 3-4+ full-bore runs without coming up short on juice. I have no evidence or experience to back that up...it just seems like a potential drawback. I'd love to be proven wrong

CLH wrote: I think the biggest challenge for the CR-Z (and any other hybrid) may be keeping sufficient charge in the batteries to complete 3-4+ full-bore runs without coming up short on juice. I have no evidence or experience to back that up...it just seems like a potential drawback. I'd love to be proven wrong

I've pondered the electric class-killer too, and the charge-carrying capacity vs weight trade off is paramount.

Since this was proposed as an SCCA question, does anyone know if the club rules would prohibit recharging in grid between runs? Don't know if a portable generator would be enough to juice up the battery pack, but maybe...

I don't think it would matter what the SCCA said so much as the fact that unless you have 40+ people to a heat on a long course, it's not gonna matter all that much because you simply won't have the time to put a run's worth of charge into your batteries unless you pump the charge rate WAY up, and batteries rarely like being charged at 3x-4x their intended charge rate, usually ends in lots of the critical magic smoke escaping with the aid of some fire. now having one or two spare sets of batteries on an ultra-high-current-capacity quick disconnect system so you could swap out an entire bank of batteries between runs, THAT would work just fine I think although it would be very tedious and could be very dangerous if someone who doesn't know what they are doing decides to handle the batteries. I still stand by my idea of building in enough range to the entire bank of batteries that you can run an event on one pack, and adding in enough adjustability to that to add more batteries if you need more range for a longer course or a really long event

If it weren't for the cost of the motor, transformer, batteries, etc, I'd put one in my Formula Vee....

I think an E-Vee would be a cool idea.

The current battery technology can easily handle a day of autocross runs with no charging in between. The same batteries that would be best for high amp use are the ones that are better at handling fast recharges if you felt the need. The technology is there at a semi reasonable cost. The real fun stuff will be when brushless motor and controller technology gets cheap enough for people to use individual motors powering each wheel and using that for traction control, varying wheel speed in corners, etc...

As a loooooong time slot car enthusiast, I look forward to the day I can autocross a pure electric car. I think it would have a crazy advantage (no gears, no clutch, lots of torque down low, crazy powerband, extremely responsive).

I actually thought about doing it with this:

Having run electric go-karts at a facility or two, I can see where the advantages could translate to autocross. In karts you can remotely adjust throttle up or down to handicap other racers, or compensate for weight differences.

an idea that was posited on another board when electric car conversions were mentioned was to raid an electric forklift for parts. You can find them fairly cheap and if their "accelerator" is actually adjusting the electric motors speed you are way ahead of the dollar curve. I looked at an electric forklift a while back, but its pedal was basically an on/off switch. very annoying to drive.

I think B Mod is limited to internal combustion (though that may have changed). Technically, IIRC, AM is the only class without clear definitions on drivetrain power.

There has been a lot of talk about the F440 & F500 FMod cars switching to 600cc bike engines... maybe they should be looking at these. They could go from being obnoxiously loud to nearly silent....

Back from the dead...

Electric Formula Vee Photos

These photos really make me want to electrify my solo vee. Looks like the electric motor is mated to the VW transaxle. (My FV needs a motor anyway and it shouldn't take too many batteries for a days worth of autocrossing...)

If only I had some electrical knowledge to go with my ambition...

I count 57 PC680s in that one picture, retail that's $5700-8500 worth of batteries, given the capacity vs weight and looking at the Odyssey website, I can't figure out how they're getting 490KW, anyone? It looks like 12-14 batteries per side, my guess is 14x2 with a spare set on the charger...

The hybrid fiero on here and in the magazine ($2010 challenge) used salvaged Prius batteries... wonder if I could use them?

I once had a talk with the Odyessy guys about using their batteries in an electric car. They said their batteries are very suited for the use as you can easily deep cycle them without harm.

I think an all electric Fiero or X 1/9 would be fun

Wonder how many batteries would be required to last through a day of autocross? (just thinking about the weight and how much the batteries would weigh)

depends on how potent of a motor you use and how long the course is. I know it's just 1/4 mile in a straight line, but the electric Killacycle drag bike could be a good indicator of relative battery life, since that bike does use a pair (?) of absolutely ignorantly powerful motors with the absolute minimum number of batteries they can get away with, although I don't know if they switch batteries between runs. a small, light autoX car running a single motor that wouldn't be basically going WOT every time it wasn't sitting still would be a LOT easier on batteries I think, and for something meeting the minimum size and weight for A-mod could easily get away with a single motor or a less powerful motor than a full-on drag bike would run, and it would likely still be competitive against the A-mod cars running an internal combustion engine. if you were enterprising enough, it would be a LOT easier to set up a very compact transmission for an electric car, just look at the transmission designs on remote control 2WD buggies (3 gear internal, 2 gear external to fine-tune the gearing, just replace the 2 gear external with a chain and use sportbike front and rear sprockets).

It seems like in my case, it would be best to keep the VW transaxle as it is relatively lightweight and includes a differential. Just wouldn't need to shift. (I remember reading about a electric VW Beetle a while back and they did something similar and the vehicle was permanently in 2nd gear). That Beetle was saddled with a ton of lead-acid batteries just to give it a range but range wouldn't be an issue in an autox car.

Maybe something like this would move an 800lb solo vee nicely... motor